64
   

Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

 
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 03:22 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
I also don't discount my hypothesis that constantly playing violent video games... may have helped to fuel and stimulate violent fantasies....

Good job passing on the NRA's snow job....

firefly
 
  2  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 03:47 pm
@firefly,
There is plenty of valid research on the negative effects of very violent video games, and I'm not blaming the video games, I'm suggesting the impact they may have had on a particularly susceptible individual, and how they might have influenced him in particular--particularly because he had such easy access to real weapons which could help him translate fantasy into reality.

The rampage would not have been possible without the high power weapons and high capacity clips--and the NRA can't get around that. It's a danger of having such a weapon in the home, and unsecured to boot.
firefly
 
  2  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 04:13 pm
@DrewDad,
I found this article very interesting, and it points out the huge stake the gun manufacturers have in promoting and selling assault weapons. The NRA just fronts for the gun manfacturers, in return for receiving lots of money from them. It's really the gun manufacturers who are supporting and encouraging the acquistion of these weapons designed for mass murder, and they will resist any attempts at control with all their substantial might.
Quote:
Nancy Lanza Firearms Purchases Show She Was Ideal Gun Industry Customer
John Rudolf
12/17/2012

Nancy Lanza, the mother of Sandy Hook Elementary School shooter Adam Lanza, was in many ways an ideal customer for the U.S. gun industry.

A divorced mother of two with plenty of disposable income, Lanza, 52, collected guns for home security and for target shooting, according to friends and relatives. Her personal arsenal included a Bushmaster .223, a lightweight military-style rifle, and several high-capacity semi-automatic handguns.

The Bushmaster was the weapon used by her 20-year-old son Adam to murder 20 children and six adults at a Connecticut elementary school on Friday, authorities said. Investigators discovered hundreds of rounds in high-capacity clips on Lanza's body after he reportedly committed suicide. Nancy Lanza was also killed, shot multiple times in the head by her son before he began his rampage, police said.

Military-style weapons like the Bushmaster, an AR-15 assault rifle once mostly limited to armed forces personnel and law enforcement, have spread far and wide in recent decades as a result of aggressive marketing by a gun industry fighting to maintain profitability in the face of a long-term decline in sales to a shrinking population of hunters.

Women have emerged as an important sales demographic for such weapons in the past decade, said Tom Diaz, a senior analyst with the Violence Policy Center in Washington.

"Women like her have been a heavy target of the industry," said Diaz. "They're always promoting getting women into the shooting sports."

A 2011 report by Freedom Group, a privately held company that owns Bushmaster, the top-selling military-style rifles, noted that sales to women were a "significant" source of growth.

"We believe that a meaningful percentage of recent firearm sales are being made to first-time gun purchasers, particularly women," the report stated. "We view this current increase in demand as having significant long-term benefits."

A spokeswoman for Freedom Group did not respond to a request for comment. The National Rifle Association disabled its Facebook page after the shooting, and did not respond to media inquiries. The National Shooting Sports Foundation, a gun rights group based in Newtown, Conn., also failed to return messages requesting comment.

"Out of respect for the families, the community and the ongoing police investigation, it would be inappropriate to comment or participate in media requests at this time," said a statement on the group's website.

In the wake of the Newton massacre, a growing chorus of federal and state leaders have called for increased regulation of semiautomatic weapons and the high-capacity clips that greatly increase their lethality. On Sunday, President Barack Obama said he was prepared to push hard for tougher gun laws.

A serious clampdown on military-style semiautomatics and high-capacity pistols would hit gun manufacturers hard, according to industry experts. A 2008 article by the firearms trade magazine Shooting Line described gun manufacturers as "hanging onto a single category."

"If you're heavily dependent on hunting, you are hurting," the article noted.

High-capacity pistols and military-style semiautomatic rifles, however, were on back order for many gun retailers due to “incessant consumer demand,” Shooting Line said.

Overall gun ownership rates have fallen sharply in recent decades, according to some researchers. In 1980, just over half of all American households reported owning a firearm. In 2010, just one in three American homes said they kept a gun on the premises, according to a survey by the Violence Policy Center.

“The challenge to the gun industry is this: they have completely saturated their typical customer, the white male 40 or above, so they are trying to sell that guy his third, fourth, fifth, sixth or even seventh gun," said Ladd Everitt of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence.

To stoke sales, the gun industry aggressively markets military-style weapons to the consumer market, using catalogs, websites and advertisements in magazines that evoke patriotic themes or stoke fears of violent crime, economic collapse and civil unrest.

"Security is more critical than ever, no matter how you define the word home. Iraq. Afghanistan. Your living room," said a 2010 advertisement for a "tactical shotgun" in Guns & Ammo magazine.

Such themes may have appealed to Nancy Lanza, who kept the guns in her home to be "prepared for the worst," her sister-in-law, Marsha Lanza, told the Chicago Sun-Times on Sunday.

Another friend, Jim Leff, a musician, said Lanza enjoyed using her guns for target practice. She "was a big, big gun fan," Leff wrote on his personal blog after the shooting.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/nancy-lanza-firearms-purchases_n_2318599.html?view=print&comm_ref=false
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 04:31 pm
@DrewDad,
Quote:
Good job passing on the NRA's snow job....


I agree. All references to the shooter's state of mind are irrelevant. There will be people in the future with similar states of mind. Maybe an increasing number. Focussing on the shooter is playing for the NRA and its paymasters.

The easy availability of cheap weapons is the real problem. Without dealing with that you will just continue burying the dead and having Media feeding frenzies until the end of time.

The Government can do something to end it and if it doesn't then what happens next is on its watch. Otherwise it isn't a real government.

ossobuco
 
  1  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 04:46 pm
@firefly,
You misquoted me. Stop that. How dare you?
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 04:53 pm
@Ragman,
Quote:
Guns, guns, and more guns.


That's what I'm talking about!

Arm up, train and be prepared to defend yourself and others because as this democratic downgrade
worsens there will come a time when the government will not be able to help us, we will be on your own.
ossobuco
 
  0  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 05:02 pm
@ossobuco,
I'll add, don't ******* do that.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 05:07 pm
@firefly,

Quote:
To stoke sales, the gun industry aggressively markets military-style weapons to the consumer market, using catalogs, websites and advertisements in magazines that evoke patriotic themes or stoke fears of violent crime, economic collapse and civil unrest.


Well my gosh, was anyone even aware of that?
firefly
 
  2  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 05:08 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
All references to the shooter's state of mind are irrelevant

That's true in terms of the issue of gun violence.

But this thread is about more than that issue, and there is normal curiosity about what would motivate someone to commit such a heinous and unthinkable act as riddling the bodies of 6 and 7 year olds with bullets--for no apparent reason. So I think we search for some kind of rational explanation to try to understand a totally irrational act.

Unfortunately, I don't think we will find that neat explanation in this case--too much evidence died with the killer and his mother and his smashed computer.

No question that the easy availability of certain weapons made possible the rampage in this case.

And there's no question that the easy availability of guns is a major factor in our systemic problem with gun violence.
Quote:
Yes, NRA, guns ARE the problem
December 15, 2012
http://reidreport.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/guns_in_home.gif
The slaughter at Sandy Hook Elementary in a small, safe suburb in Connecticut, by a deranged 20-year-old toting nearly a half dozen of his mother’s cherished guns (one of which he used to kill her), has led us to once again, with great passion and futility, debate whether we should debate enacting stricter gun laws. Well enough of the debate already. And enough of the silly false equivalencies about cars and knives and throwing enough hardened loaves of bread at people to kill them just as dead. Because while it’s true that guns don’t kill people, people with guns DO kill people. And they do it a lot. And the more people with guns are around, the more people die.

Check out the firearm death rate by state and notice that with the exception of the deadly District of Columbia, ALL of the top ten deadliest states when it comes to getting shot are in the south or west. And those just happen to be the places with the loosest gun laws.

Just how strong is the correlation between loose gun laws and getting murdered, increasingly by a mass murderer rather than a regular one? Well, let’s just say that you are, right now, safer from getting shot in New York than in Vermont. And safer even in Illinois, with all its problems, than you are in Arizona. Those aren’t Democratic, bleeding heart liberal talking points, those are facts. Because while Chicago may be Murder City, the whole state of Illinois, with its relatively tight gun laws (at least for now, since the NRA is working diligently to roll those laws back) is only middling in terms of its dangerousness to its inhabitants. Same with California, despite the existence of Los Angeles and all those gangs.

But Louisiana? Well, with almost no restrictions on guns, a tight right wing stranglehold on everything, and lots of guns, it’s quite a deadly delight, New Orleans’ gorgeous French Quarter notwithstanding.
http://reidreport.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/gun-control-laws-and-gun-deaths-florida.jpg
The map above is from Ezra Klein’s WonkBlog, which lists 12 facts about guns and mass shootings that you should really read http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/.

And let’s not hear the bloviation about how Israel and Switzerland have lots of guns, because that has been debunked too. Both those countries have tightened their gun laws in recent years, and seen gun violence and suicide by firearm decline.

So what is the debate about? Americans need to name the enemy: the N.R.A., which let’s face it, represents the interests of gun manufacturers and their need for profits, not individual, responsible gun owners. And they need to fight them like they fought ALEC (American Legislative Exchange Council). Only then will scaredy-cat politicians from either party grow enough stones to enact sane legislation like renewing the Assault Weapons Ban.

http://blog.reidreport.com/2012/12/yes-nra-guns-are-the-problem/#more-28706
firefly
 
  1  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 05:09 pm
@ossobuco,
Where did I even quote you, let alone misquote you?
boomerang
 
  0  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 05:10 pm
@firefly,
The seriously busted up computer is an interesting part in all of this.

My guess is that a socially isolated 20 year old might be looking at a lot of porn. Maybe his mom found out and there was a confrontation so he killed her.
ossobuco
 
  -1  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 05:16 pm
@firefly,
Here -
http://able2know.org/topic/203766-46#post-5200174

which references here -
http://able2know.org/topic/203766-46#post-5200163

Don't **** with my posts, or anyone elses, converting posts to your own words.
firefly
 
  2  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 05:22 pm
@ossobuco,
I'm sorry, osso.

I didn't misquote you, I didn't quote you at all--I was quoting Ragman and hit the reply to you button by mistake. He made the comment I quoted and responded to.

Please accept my apologies for that mistake. It was an unintentional error.

Quote:
Don't **** with my posts, or anyone elses, converting posts to your own words.

Whoa, girl. I didn't **** with your post, or anyone elses. As I've said, I was replying to Ragman, and I quoted him verbatim, I just hit the wrong Reply To button..
ossobuco
 
  1  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 05:24 pm
@firefly,
All right, I'll listen, given the reply problem going on, and I was slow to remember that. But, you got me going.
firefly
 
  1  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 05:32 pm
@ossobuco,
I almost always quote people verbatim, osso, I have no desire to mess around with or alter what people have actually said.

That quote I responded to just got attributed to the wrong poster, as the result of carelessness on my part in hitting which post I was responding to. My intention was to respond to Ragman, not to you, and it was Ragman I quoted.

I'm sorry if my mistake upset you.
Ragman
 
  2  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 05:34 pm
@firefly,
Thank heavens no one here was armed, right?

Let's hug it out!
firefly
 
  2  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 05:34 pm
@Ragman,
Laughing
ossobuco
 
  2  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 05:42 pm
@firefly,
No, it wasn't your mistake, it's a present ongoing problem with site fixing, and the usual way we deal with replying or replying all is stopped to only just reply. I among others have even suggested our own way of replying to all, as @ all.
I knew that, just didn't compute it in my mind, and reacted aggressively, not remembering.

I heartily apologize.

(just don't try that again!)

0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  2  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 05:43 pm
@firefly,
Seriously, this little dust-up here underscores (to me) how much more personal ... more so than any recent event ... just how sensitive people are about this tragedy. I must admit I rely on responses here to focus. As a result of this seriousness, I do my due diligence to understand and research as much as I can about this issue/these issues.

FWIW, I just had a 30 min phone discussion with my oldest sister (78 yr of age) about this whole matter. In her past life, she was a former town librarian and sunday school teacher and mother of 3 (now fully grown) children and grandmother of 5.

She was very sensitive to the impact on children and school security. Also we have a family member (younger cousin) who has Asperger Syndrome.

I, OTOH, lived 10-15 mi away from Newtown, CT from 5 yrs. I know the area and got a sense of the tightly night community.

Needless to say, this issue hit home. We both admitted to one another to us crying quite a few times after hearing the details of the tragedy. We're not really cryers by nature (whatever that means).
hingehead
 
  6  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 05:48 pm
@Ragman,
@all

You guys have no idea how rational and intelligent this discussion is with a few key ignorings.

Just wanted to share a paraphrased tweet that I thought very apropos

'Sick of "guns don't kill people" bullshit line. Yarn doesn't make sweaters but it's lot ******* easier to make one if you've got some.'
 

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