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Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

 
 
firefly
 
  3  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 12:03 pm
@Sturgis,
The main group who will fight any attempts at better control, or limitation of certain weapons, will be the gun manufacturers. The NRA just takes money from them--loads of money--and acts as their stooge, and, as recent polls have indicated, the NRA is out of sync with most of their membership on the issue.

The gun manufacturers are about to go ballistic. They'll try to blame the problem of gun violence on everything but the types of weapons they produce, and how they go about marketing them, and the profit motive involved in heightening public paranoia and thereby increasing the demand for their increasingly more efficient killing machines.

The NRA is really a front for the gun manufacturers. And it's only one stooge the manufacturers will use to undermine efforts at better regulation and control. They'll be using many stogies to try to sabotage any meaningful discussion or action.

Val Killmore
 
  1  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 12:12 pm
@tsarstepan,
The violent video game industry is equally to blame for this carnage by the effect of desensitization an individual to violence, which has been revealed, and what we expected in this case. By your analogy, then, should violent video games be banned as well?

It is my belief that all this could have been prevented by good parenting. Adam's mother pampered him, didn't kick him out of the house when he was 18 to fend for himself and mature, and while allowing to live in her home, didn't monitor his activity and notify the proper authorities of his deviant change in behavior, and just batted an eyelash to her lunatic son. What's worse, she took him to gun ranges and taught him how to use guns at a young age especially after she saw that his behavior deviated from a normal teenager, so much so that she had to take him out of the high school and home-school him. And now she has paid her price and won't make the same mistake again.
Sturgis
 
  4  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 12:13 pm
@H2O MAN,
In more than 60 years of life, I have never owned a gun, never had interest in owning a gun. I live in New York City and have spent many years of life here and although crime exists, I have never viewed possession of a gun as the answer.

The only gun I ever held was after a friend had died and it was in his possessions. I called the police department, they said I could bring it in, I asked them to come and get it, which they gladly did. I had no desire to walk outside with a gun, even just the short distance to the precinct house. They came by, collected it and instructed me to come to the station, which I did. I waited while they conducted a search of guns of that type used for crimes, it apparently came back clean. They handed me the gun holster which I later disposed of.

I am not against the constitution (although I may be viewed as an emotional fool), I am not irrational, I have thought about guns and the stupidity of them several times over the years. I can find no reason for me, the average citizen to own one.

Further, if you think that the constitution is the reason why a person should own a gun then I would suspect you are the one who is against the constitution.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 12:14 pm
@firefly,


If the general public is disarmed then there would be no reason for law enforcement to be armed and no reason for politicians to have armed guards protecting them.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  3  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 12:15 pm
@H2O MAN,
Quote:
You should be detained and medicated


Hey diddico--I hope you don't think we are relying on the NRA and you silly sods to protect our freedom. If we were I would get a suit of armour as well as a battery of fire extinguishers and sit in a cave in the hills.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 12:16 pm
@H2O MAN,
Quote:
There is no evidence that suggests stricter gun laws would have prevented the Newton attack, none.

That's mainly because, in this particular instance, the killer's mother wasn't a very responsible gun owner--she failed to properly secure her mini-arsenal--and she paid a price for that, it cost her her life.

And, if the killer hadn't been able to get his hands on that particularly rapid and efficient killing machine, the damage would likely have been more limited--the response of law enforcement to the school was incredibly fast.

The attack could have been prevented if Mrs Lanza had locked up her mini-arsenal. But that's one problem with having these weapons in the home--not all gun owners are responsible.



cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 12:17 pm
@Val Killmore,
VK, The only thing I disagree with you is about "good parenting" preventing any violence by their child. There are some psychological problems that are difficult to "control" without understanding there are problems or can be managed by medication. Many parents are just "not aware" unless the child shows antisocial characteristics; some just ignore them with they belief that they will outgrow them or are minor problems.
Ragman
 
  2  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 12:22 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I'll add my addendum to your comment...

... or are so overwhelmed (the mother) and helpless due to the complexities of this affliction (Asperger's) and they resist any attempts at incursions from the outside ... interference or more complications from the medcial experts and/or pharmaceutical complications or solutions.

She may have been at a total loss as to what to do next with helping him interface and interact with the outside world. I think it was too big for her once he went over 18 for many reasons.

The fact this woman provided any exposure to her child to guns is beyond my comprehension. He was unable to deal appropriately with humans. And she KNEW this from the git-go. This was the unthinkable part to me out of all this mess.
0 Replies
 
Val Killmore
 
  1  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 12:27 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Agree with Ragman....

If you, CI, were in a similar situation, and had a (unstable) son older than 18 sitting in your home, eating away your resources, and playing video games all day, then you're saying you wouldn't do anything about it?

I'd say, as well as many other experienced parents, that which is bad parenting.
Ragman
 
  2  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 12:28 pm
@Val Killmore,
Bad parenting is one thing ... but criminal behavior (allowing him access to a gun at all) is another. It has become clear from all reports that she encouraged him to use the guns.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 12:36 pm
@Val Killmore,
You're talking about one specific incident; I'm talking "generally speaking."

Your example doesn't represent the majority of cases. Each child is unique, and it would depend on many variable issues concerning that child.

Please describe for us "bad parenting," and where you draw the line?

How many parents fall into your definition of "bad parenting?"

Another question: How would you get involved with your understanding of your definition of "bad parenting?"
Val Killmore
 
  1  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 12:40 pm
@cicerone imposter,
There is no clear line, but I believe it is a common sense like intuition. You can sense that something is amiss, and try to take the appropriate measures to get outside help, or take an action to avoid potential "accidents," for the best interest of your kids.
firefly
 
  1  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 12:41 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Until his shooting rampage, Lanza didn't display any anti-social or violent tendencies, at least none that people, outside his home, who had contact with him, were aware of.

But Val Killmore has a good point. The influence of violent video games, in terms of enhancing the appeal of violent fantasies, and stimulating such fantasies, particularly in one who is socially isolated, withdrawn, and otherwise relatively powerless in the world, and who might be playing them excessively, is certainly something that should be considered. The games may have given him an image of being powerful, and hyper-masculine, in a way that he could never achieve in daily life, and his mother then supplied him with the weapons that enabled him to live out that fantasy, and leave his mark, and that powerful image of himself, on the world. Particularly if he was very depressed, and possibly suicidal, over the limited sort of future he saw for himself, given his disabilities, that's a real possibility. This rampage could have been his swan song, his suicide, and the form it took could have been shaped by violent video games.

It's something that parents might want to think about if their children play these games--particularly if their children have significant problems with their social functioning, as this young man did.

The only main parenting mistake, that we know about, was not locking up those guns.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 12:42 pm
@Val Killmore,
You,
Quote:
common sense like intuition
.

What makes you believe "intuition" is in any way "common sense?"
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 12:45 pm
@Val Killmore,
Val Killmore wrote:

The violent video game industry is equally to blame for this carnage by the effect of desensitization an individual to violence, which has been revealed, and what we expected in this case. By your analogy, then, should violent video games be banned as well?

You're reading skills are particularly poor Val. Direct quote back to me where I stated ALL guns should be banned. Direct quote to me VERBATIM where I blamed video games. Direct quote to me VERBATIM where I state video games should be blamed. Your broken logic knee jerkish post is a tad too reaching. I know you can't quote back to me any statements which evidence for your singular post, so my question is why did you bother to reply to the following post:
tsarstepan wrote:

BillRM wrote:

Safety equipments I normally carry around with me had tend to benefit others more then me.

I can now picture you with an oversized salt shaker and a 50 gallon barrel of liquid transfat. You walking around your local restaurant district voluntarily shaking salt and pouring a cup of transfats onto everyone's meals as you wail out, "Dang malicious government's trying to take salt and transfats from your diet. I'm here to save you all from the monstrous evils of big government intervention."

And if someone protests they don't want that added onto their food, you scream back how you're here to save everyone from the tyranny of healthmongers!

This critique of BillRM and his progun agenda is for his usual all government regulations are the essence of dictatorship yet he proposes an entirely new armed security force for the nation's school system. Oddly conflicting viewpoints. Fair enough that you don't know these details but clearly you are also not to bright as to read all of that crap in your response as being at all relevant to what I believe in here and stated thusly in this and other threads at a2k.

Val Killmore wrote:

It is my belief that all this could have been prevented by good parenting. Adam's mother pampered him, didn't kick him out of the house when he was 18 to fend for himself and mature, and while allowing to live in her home, didn't monitor his activity and notify the proper authorities of his deviant change in behavior, and just batted an eyelash to her lunatic son. What's worse, she took him to gun ranges and taught him how to use guns at a young age especially after she saw that his behavior deviated from a normal teenager, so much so that she had to take him out of the high school and home-school him. And now she has paid her price and won't make the same mistake again.

How is any of this relevant to anything I've said here or elsewhere in a2k? It isn't as you're just throwing out a random piss poor argument at a random thread post thinking its going to stick. Aim your attacks at people who are making arguments that conflict against what you're saying.
Val Killmore
 
  1  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 12:46 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Does it matter? If it stops you doing something foolish or helps in some way then it doesn't really matter as long as it works.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 12:48 pm
@Val Killmore,
What works? Your intuition? So, what action will you be taking against those parents you believe are not good parents?
Val Killmore
 
  1  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 12:48 pm
@tsarstepan,
I'll get back to you when I have enough time to explain my context.
Ragman
 
  2  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 12:50 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

Until his shooting rampage, Lanza didn't display any anti-social or violent tendencies, at least none that people, outside his home, who had contact with him, were aware of.


Your's is an assumption in which I don't hold stock. However, I have no ability to disprove, either. I think the nature of his afflication was anti-cocial in that he had no ability to understand and interact with others. However this does not make him violent.

Whether or not there was a drug interaction problem caused by medications (hallucinatory or causing schizoid issues) remains to be seen...perhaps something may be revealed through an autopsy.
ossobuco
 
  3  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 01:07 pm
@Ragman,
How true the info in this article is, I've no idea, but it sounds legit, and makes sense to me. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/19/adam-lanza-motive_n_2329508.html
(re mother in process of commitment procedures).

My own guess from afar on her taking him to shooting practice is that she was trying to engage him on a hobby they were both interested in.

My take on guns is quite similar to Sturgis's, including the "get rid of it" episode, plus a similar take with some posters here re the USSC decision - but I understand people disagreeing.

 

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