64
   

Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Fri 25 Jan, 2013 08:55 am
@H2O MAN,
I said "imo" didn't I? What happens next will confirm my opinion or otherwise.

And if the US adopts our gun laws I would bet money that its murder rate falls by at least 50% straight away and a lot more later.

If it doesn't in deference to the fat-cats who wrote the 2nd then I think it will stay the same or increase due to the combination of more guns and the very uneven division of wealth in difficult economic circumstances.

Thus I think that supporters of the 2nd are party to that just as much as the gun toting brigade.


If I remember correctly Dylan's The Man In Me is the title music in The Big Lebowski.
spendius
 
  1  
Fri 25 Jan, 2013 09:00 am
Bang the kit
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 25 Jan, 2013 09:03 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5235985)
Quote:
Being a good citizens involves allowing government to restrict our rights.


Sorry but giving up the right to have the means of defending both myself and my family if attacked by a criminal is not a price I am willing to even consider.

No matter what the laws happen to be any criminal that wished to be armed will be armed and damn if I see the need of the government to make their lives safer by disarming the citizens and turning all of us into helpless victims.


Whatever!

In any case, being a good citizen does involve allowing government to restrict our rights.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 25 Jan, 2013 09:04 am
@H2O MAN,
Quote:
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5235985)
Frank Apisa wrote:

Being a good citizens involves allowing government to restrict our rights.


LOL

Tell us you are making a joke here.


Not at all. Want to discuss it if you disagree?
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Fri 25 Jan, 2013 09:13 am
@spendius,
Quote:
And if the US adopts our gun laws I would bet money that its murder rate falls by at least 50% straight away and a lot more later.


Nonsense no magic wand and no law will cause 300 millions firearms to disappear and even the honest citizens will tell the government to go screw itself let alone the criminals.

Love to see a US jury panel that would be willing to convict anyone under the kind of insane laws you live under also.

Your damn Olympic pistol team can not even practice in your own country how insane is that kind of silliness.

BillRM
 
  1  
Fri 25 Jan, 2013 09:16 am
@Frank Apisa,
I
Quote:
n any case, being a good citizen does involve allowing government to restrict our rights.


In this matter is what it take to be a good citizen, I am not planning on being one and I question if a large numbers of the 150 millions or so others guns owners will be good citizens also if allowing the government to disarmed us and by so doing breaking the 2 amendment is how you define good citizenship.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 25 Jan, 2013 09:27 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5236031)
I
Quote:
n any case, being a good citizen does involve allowing government to restrict our rights.


In this matter is what it take to be a good citizen, I am not planning on being one and I question if a large numbers of the 150 millions or so others guns owners will be good citizens also if allowing the government to disarmed us and by so doing breaking the 2 amendment is how you define good citizenship.


No problem, Bill.

One can easily be a good citizen and still own guns. I have NEVER suggested otherwise.

But I am asserting that being a good citizen does involve allowing government to restrict our rights.
BillRM
 
  1  
Fri 25 Jan, 2013 09:39 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
But I am asserting that being a good citizen does involve allowing government to restrict our rights.



Not clear constitution rights that is both the foundation document of the US and from which all legal and moral powers of the government is base on.

A government the moment it break the constitution in that manner is de facto an illegal government with no claims on the people to obey it laws and is in need of being replaced by a legal government once more by whatever means is needed.
spendius
 
  1  
Fri 25 Jan, 2013 10:00 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Nonsense no magic wand and no law will cause 300 millions firearms to disappear and even the honest citizens will tell the government to go screw itself let alone the criminals.

Love to see a US jury panel that would be willing to convict anyone under the kind of insane laws you live under also.

Your damn Olympic pistol team can not even practice in your own country how insane is that kind of silliness.


Bloody hell Bill!! We might be serfs but I can't see many mature males here writing that tripe. It's ******* infantile man. It's not even an answer to what you quoted my having said.

And your obsession with our pistol team is starting to look like a hobby horse. I dare say that not one in 10,000 here could name a single member of our pistol team. It would not be missed if it vanished. Neither would the corrupt Olympic Games.
Val Killmore
 
  1  
Fri 25 Jan, 2013 10:13 am
@parados,
Well someone has to give you the taste of your own medicine. As I have said before regarding such silly games, two can play at the game.
parados
 
  1  
Fri 25 Jan, 2013 10:22 am
@Val Killmore,

You are the one that played silly games.
Legislation was passed to protect federal buildings. 9/11 happened. You made a snarky comment about how legislation didn't prevent it.

That can only lead one to the conclusion you thought the legislation was a failure because it didn't stop all terrorism. If your comment meant something else then please tell us what your meaning was.
Val Killmore
 
  0  
Fri 25 Jan, 2013 10:24 am
@parados,
http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/kkbnVXXdoXgq5v3wulJOKw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/theticket/2013-01-24T203805Z_568560029_GM1E91P0CTB01_RTRMADP_3_FINANCIAL-REGULATION-NOMINATIONS.JPG

Right right you know exactly what I implied albeit you are not me. Hey have you seen this picture parados? Ya what's your idea to prevent this. Oh wait let me guess, we should make flies illegal. Yes, that will take care of it. Perhaps it is also an excellent idea to ban assault flies or create fly-free zones.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 25 Jan, 2013 10:28 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

And your obsession with our pistol team is starting to look like a hobby horse. I dare say that not one in 10,000 here could name a single member of our pistol team. It would not be missed if it vanished. Neither would the corrupt Olympic Games.
I only just now noticed that we have a shooting Bundesliga in Germany. And the shooting club of a neighbour town is second in that league ...
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Fri 25 Jan, 2013 10:30 am
@parados,
Judging by his last post, guess we still got to wait to what his meaning was. Maybe he thinks we should not protect any federal buildings at all because terrorist crashed planes into the towers and pentagon. Rolling Eyes
Val Killmore
 
  1  
Fri 25 Jan, 2013 10:40 am
@revelette,
Ignoring the words "reasoned measure" for a moment, tell me again, how did the 1996 Anti-Terrorism Act prevent 9/11?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 25 Jan, 2013 10:44 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5236045)
Quote:
But I am asserting that being a good citizen does involve allowing government to restrict our rights.




Not clear constitution rights that is both the foundation document of the US and from which all legal and moral powers of the government is base on.

A government the moment it break the constitution in that manner is de facto an illegal government with no claims on the people to obey it laws and is in need of being replaced by a legal government once more by whatever means is needed.


I continue to respectfully disagree with you on that. I think the first amendment to our Constitution is not so inviolate that restrictions cannot reasonably be imposed...and I certainly do not think the second amendment is either.
parados
 
  2  
Fri 25 Jan, 2013 10:46 am
@Val Killmore,
I know what your statement as written implied because I can read. Perhaps you should have written your true intent if you didn't mean what you wrote.

I am curious how you propose to enforce a law that bans flies. Who will you prosecute? Your attempt to use flies is silly because humans don't own, manufacture or sell flies.

In the case of guns, we can jail a person that violates the law. Humans have control over guns when they own, manufacture and sell them.


By the way, we do pass laws to help restrict the number of mosquitoes when we pass laws that restrict standing water. It is illegal for me to keep old tires on my property that contain standing water. Mosquitoes still exist but we do try to control them.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Fri 25 Jan, 2013 10:47 am
@Val Killmore,
Val Killmore wrote:

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/kkbnVXXdoXgq5v3wulJOKw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/theticket/2013-01-24T203805Z_568560029_GM1E91P0CTB01_RTRMADP_3_FINANCIAL-REGULATION-NOMINATIONS.JPG




That poor little fly
parados
 
  2  
Fri 25 Jan, 2013 10:47 am
@Val Killmore,
Val Killmore wrote:

Ignoring the words "reasoned measure" for a moment, tell me again, how did the 1996 Anti-Terrorism Act prevent 9/11?

Tell us again how your statement doesn't imply that a law must stop all instances of something or be a failure. You sure seem to imply that.
parados
 
  2  
Fri 25 Jan, 2013 10:48 am
@Frank Apisa,
The issue Bill fails to address is that one person's rights can interfere with another person's rights. That requires that rights be balanced against other rights.
 

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