64
   

Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

 
 
revelette
 
  2  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 10:39 am
Quote:
It stood to reason that the right would be unimpressed with President Obama's new measures on preventing gun violence, but some reactions, especially from sitting senators, were needlessly hysterical, particularly on the issue of executive orders.

As we discussed yesterday, the bulk of the White House plan will require congressional action, but the president also approved 23 executive orders. These were hardly outrageous steps -- one was nominating a new AFT director. Another was informing state health officials about the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover under current law. As Rachel explained on the show last night, another one of the 23 orders instructs administration officials to send an open letter to licensed gun dealers giving them guidance on how best to facilitate background checks, if they choose to.

These were all modest, almost perfunctory steps, taken by a president acting well within his legal authority. Obama doesn't need Congress' permission to publicly remind folks about existing law.

And yet, those who often struggle with public policy are outraged anyway.


Soon after the White House news conference, Senator Marco Rubio, the Florida Republican who is considered a potential contender for the 2016 Republican presidential nomination, denounced Mr. Obama as flouting the role of Congress for taking some actions on his own.

"Making matters worse is that President Obama is again abusing his power by imposing his policies via executive fiat instead of allowing them to be debated in Congress," Mr. Rubio said. "President Obama's frustration with our republic and the way it works doesn't give him license to ignore the Constitution."

Does Rubio have any evidence at all that president abused his power? No. Do any of the president's executive orders require congressional review? No. Is the president ignoring the Constitution? No. Did Rubio even manage to find one executive order that he disagrees with? No.

Does Marco Rubio have any idea what he's talking about? It doesn't seem like it.

But the right-wing Floridian looked almost sensible compared to Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.).


Sen. Rand Paul on Wednesday night announced plans to try to undo parts of President Barack Obama's executive proposals to curb gun violence, saying the president may be developing a "king-like complex."

"We will nullify anything the president does that smacks of legislation," the Kentucky Republican said on Fox News in reference to 23 actions Obama unveiled earlier in the day.

Paul added that executive orders "could be construed to describe an attempt by the executive to make laws." Construed by whom? The senator didn't say. Which orders seemed dubious? He didn't say that, either.

Rubio and Paul seem to be offering an entirely new argument: that presidents who use executive orders are necessarily abusing the democratic process. Under this reasoning, every executive order, on any issue, by every president, is an example of "imposing policies via executive fiat," to use Rubio's phrase.

Civics 101 lessons shouldn't be necessary for sitting senators, but just because a president -- any president -- issues an executive order under existing legal authority doesn't mean the president is "frustrated with our republic and ignoring the Constitution." Every president since Washington has issued these orders. This isn't scandalous; it's routine.

Indeed, for all of yesterday's hysterics, none of Obama's detractors have gotten around to pointing to a single one of yesterday's executive actions that's legally dubious.

I should probably know better, but what I'm looking for here is a little depth of thought, or a slight pretense of seriousness of purpose. The argument from the right seems to be, not that there's something wrong with these specific executive orders, but that there's something wrong with all executive orders. Why? Because they say so.

It has all the sophistication of school-yard taunts.

Update: Adam Serwer reminds me that Obama's 23 measures yesterday may not even count as executive orders, per se, but are probably better described as "presidential memorandums." Adam also noted that Rubio told Fox News last night that Obama wants a gun "ban" along the lines of pre-Heller D.C. That's not even close to what the president has proposed.


source
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 10:42 am
@parados,
Your irrational fear of facts is troubling.
parados
 
  2  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 10:45 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

Your irrational fear of facts is troubling.


So you are saying there is no way anyone can buy a gun over the internet from a private seller? Gosh, that's interesting. Are you sure?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 10:50 am
@H2O MAN,
Any smart person would fear the fact a gun could kill them...Only stupid people are afraid of hugs...And white flags...And think that more guns are a good solution...to killings with guns...As well as the government to patrol every public gathering...

If there were no guns in this country...There would be neither...

Or severely less...
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 10:51 am
@parados,
I'm just pointing out that you have no interest in the facts.

All internet gun sales require that the seller to ship the gun to a brick & mortar FFL dealer.
The buyer can gain possession of the gun only after filling out the necessary
paper work and passing the background check. Sure, you can buy a gun online,
but you can't take possession of the gun until after you pass the background check.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 10:52 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
More Guns = Less Crime
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 10:55 am
@H2O MAN,
Quote:
More Guns = Less Crime

In which way?

Sure! If we knew who the bad guys were who had the guns...But we do not...

More guns = more crime...

Because many irrational people buy or get guns who are bad guys...

That there would be no way to limit...But trying to change guns laws...
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 10:55 am
@H2O MAN,

Quote:
I bet the NRA could set up an all volunteer pool of trained armed Americans
that could be present in each and every government school in the country.
Any cost would be minimal and all of the children would have at least some protection.


I guess chicken farmers can breed foxes to guard their chicken coops also, but why bother??? Wink
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 10:57 am
@H2O MAN,
Quote:
More Guns = Less Crime


Well, we've got the most guns...so we should have the least crime.

I wonder why that is not so???

0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 10:58 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Read the book and learn something
parados
 
  2  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 10:58 am
@H2O MAN,
Quote:
All internet gun sales require that the seller to ship the gun to a brick & mortar FFL dealer.

No, they don't. An internet sale can result in the buyer and the seller meeting to exchange money and gun in the parking lot of a Walmart. (Many news services have video of doing just that.) Heck, I can even cross state lines to meet in a Walmart parking lot. There is no requirement that the gun ship to a brick & mortar FFL dealer. That is just one way to do it, if you can't meet in person.

By the way, UPS and Fedex allow for me to personally ship a package to another individual COD. Anyone can sell a gun this way. It might not exactly be legal in all states but we aren't talking about only legal gun sales here.
BillRM
 
  0  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 10:59 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I guess chicken farmers can breed foxes to guard their chicken coops also, but why bother???


Odds as I do not remember ever reading that any of the mass killers were members of the NRA.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 11:01 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5229200)
Quote:
I guess chicken farmers can breed foxes to guard their chicken coops also, but why bother???



Odds as I do not remember ever reading that any of the mass killers were members of the NRA.


Quite right. But most were what you folk call "decent, honest, law-abiding Americans"...at least, until they did their slaughter.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 11:04 am
@H2O MAN,
Quote:
Read the book and learn something

I do not need to read some stupid illogical book about more guns = less crime....

I already do not think it is true...

Like Frank said...We have the most guns...So we should have the least crime?

Why don't we if this book is true? And I need to learn?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 11:10 am
@H2O MAN,
Quote:
Read the book and learn something

Tell me what the book has to say? And then tell me what it says the crime rate would be if there were no guns? 2 Cents If it does not...And talks about guns vs guns...I am not interested...
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 11:17 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,


The book says more guns in the hands of law abiding Americans equates to less crime committed by criminals.
BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 11:19 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
But most were what you folk call "decent, honest, law-abiding Americans"...at least, until they did their slaughter.


?????????????? Most of them was off color to the point people around them knew it and they were not family men.

In fact was any of them married or been married for that matter?

They were not felons and that is the end point with them being decent and honest.

More mental health treatment programs would likely do more good then any gun control laws.

After all the two greatest lost of live due to mass killings have nothing to do with firearms.

One were home make explosives and the other was the use of a few dollars of gasoline.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 11:20 am
@H2O MAN,
That is just because some of the criminals are killed and can not commit crime anymore...What does it say about crime with no guns at all?
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 11:21 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Trouble staying on topic?



H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 11:23 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

That is just because some of the criminals are killed and can not commit crime anymore...


Do you have a problem with that?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71SEX9M3R9L._SL500_AA300_.gif

The book says more guns in the hands of law abiding Americans equates to less crime committed by criminals.

Do you also have a problem with this?
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

T'Pring is Dead - Discussion by Brandon9000
Another Calif. shooting spree: 4 dead - Discussion by Lustig Andrei
Before you criticize the media - Discussion by Robert Gentel
Fatal Baloon Accident - Discussion by 33export
The Day Ferguson Cops Were Caught in a Bloody Lie - Discussion by bobsal u1553115
Robin Williams is dead - Discussion by Butrflynet
Amanda Knox - Discussion by JTT
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.18 seconds on 11/28/2024 at 01:46:00