64
   

Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

 
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2012 10:46 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:
Yup. The 2d Amendment guarantees Oralloy and Dave the right to keep muzzle-loaders in their homes and carry them to the meeting house when necessary. And maybe a cap-and-ball single-shot pistol stuck in their belts. That's all it says.


Wrong. The Constitution applies to modern technology. The Framers never intended our rights to apply only to ancient and obsolete technology.

That fallacy is pretty silly. What next, Free Speech only applies to text written by a quill and ink? Freedom of Religion only applies within churches built in the 1700s and never modernized?
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2012 10:48 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
oralloy wrote:
Constitution says I have the right to have the ones you're trying to ban.


Now youve stepped over the bounds of factual discussion. NOWHERE in the Constitution does it discuss ANY types of "arms" other than the definition of ARMS as was in effect at the time of ratification.


That definition of arms is just fine. It's good for at least bazookas and grenade launchers, if not Stinger missiles.

But more to the point, Rational Basis Review requires that the government have a good reason for doing something before it can impact a right.

The government has no good reason for banning pistol grips and flash suppressors, therefore it is unconstitutional to do so. (And the matter may well be decided with an even higher degree of scrutiny than Rational Basis Review.)

Therefore it is a fact that assault weapons bans are unconstitutional, and I've overstepped nothing.
farmerman
 
  6  
Reply Sun 16 Dec, 2012 11:01 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
The government has no good reason for banning pistol grips and flash suppressors, therefore it is unconstitutional to do so


The Supremes are merely people of their times. You folks who prey for an overturn of Roe v Wade must also recognize that these decisions regarding
guns are merely functions of todays court makeup. When the time is right and America is really fed up with such crap, Itll change

OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2012 02:52 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Quote:
The government has no good reason for banning pistol grips and flash suppressors, therefore it is unconstitutional to do so


The Supremes are merely people of their times. You folks who prey for an overturn of Roe v Wade must also recognize that these decisions regarding
guns are merely functions of todays court makeup. When the time is right and America is really fed up with such crap, Itll change
FALSE!
Historically, the Founders of this Republic were on OUR side
(the FREEDOM side), not yours! U want to twist
and lie about American history to rob us of our freedom.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2012 03:00 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

Lustig Andrei wrote:
Yup. The 2d Amendment guarantees Oralloy and Dave the right to keep muzzle-loaders in their homes and carry them to the meeting house when necessary. And maybe a cap-and-ball single-shot pistol stuck in their belts. That's all it says.


Wrong. The Constitution applies to modern technology. The Framers never intended our rights to apply only to ancient and obsolete technology.

That fallacy is pretty silly. What next, Free Speech only applies to text written by a quill and ink? Freedom of Religion only applies within churches built in the 1700s and never modernized?
WELL SAID!
The USSC addressed that explicitly in HELLER





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2012 03:12 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Im more pissed at the SIgma arguments made by the whole crowd of the "weapons at all cists are what we must protect at all costs, screw the victims".

Im a proud owner and user of guns. I often have to carry in field situiations . BUT , I am a fierce opponent of these 2nd amendment yahoos who dont see anything but serving their gun ownership without any restrictions in order to prevent things like this .
Whenever these things occur guys like ORAL, or that little mouse Dave, and usually Billy, circle their ******* wagons and start lecturing about their precious weapons.

We are a society that is gonna fall into anarchy based upon the unlimited uncontrolled ownership and brandishing of guns by douche bags, nuts, and little pissants like Dave who churn this **** like its a religion.

Comparing auto accidents to killing innocent kids and folks in theaters or gatherings just to exercise ones demons is like comparing lightning to a lightning bug. We arev dealing with domestic terror and, if these guys dont soon recognize it, weve been busy enmacting all sorts of freedom limiting laws to defeat "terrorists" but we are empowering and enabling these domestic terrorists just because theres a big fuckin DEATH LOBBY that serves in its favor
I stand by and ratify EVERYTHING that I have said.

By WHAT reasoning to u get "mouse"??





David
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2012 03:21 am
@OmSigDAVID,
And I stand by and ratify what Farmer says. I'd say anybody who's been afraid to face the world without packing a pistol since he was eight is a "mouse", yes. Time to put the gun down and stand on your own two feet for once, David. Why are you incapable of doing that?
OmSigDAVID
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2012 03:32 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
And I stand by and ratify what Farmer says. I'd say anybody who's been afraid to face the world without packing a pistol since he was eight is a "mouse", yes. Time to put the gun down and stand on your own two feet for once, David. Why are you incapable of doing that?
What u recommend is stupid.
My life is behind me.
It matters nothing for ME.
It is indecent and un-American
for anyone to walk around in a state of helplessness.





David
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2012 03:38 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Bullshit. It's called a civil society, and you've done your best to eradicate it.
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2012 03:45 am
@tsarstepan,
Don't take this the wrong way and my heart goes out for the victims in this tragic incident. My question is, what of Mexico?

For every mass shooting victim that has lost their lives in the USA, 100 Mexicans have died at the hands of the USA's wimpy and nearly non existent gun regulations. Mexico has for decades pleaded with us in the USA to curb our gun proliferation. Some people say, "Well, the Mexican cartels will just get their guns another way..." If this was the case then we would not be to blame. But we ARE to blame...

Yes it is a sad time indeed and, I am just pointing out that there is much more to be sad about and a greater reason for some new, very strict enhancements to our current gun regulations.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#50206088
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2012 05:58 am
@RexRed,
Quote:
For every mass shooting victim that has lost their lives in the USA, 100 Mexicans have died at the hands of the USA's wimpy and nearly non existent gun regulations. Mexico has for decades pleaded with us in the USA to curb our gun proliferation


It is our drugs laws not our guns laws that is hurting our neighbors to the south and with many billions repeat billions of dollars of illegal trade a year if there were zero guns in the US the guns would then be imported from the rest of the world to service the needs of the Mexican drug gangs.

Hell there is so must money in the drug trade to the US that people are designing and building first semi-submarines and starting to build real submarines to get the drugs into the US.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2012 06:07 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
oralloy wrote:
The government has no good reason for banning pistol grips and flash suppressors, therefore it is unconstitutional to do so


The Supremes are merely people of their times. You folks who prey for an overturn of Roe v Wade must also recognize that these decisions regarding guns are merely functions of todays court makeup. When the time is right and America is really fed up with such crap, Itll change


I can only interpret your comment as a prediction that in the future the Supreme Court will ignore the fundamental premises of all Constitutional rights, ignore basic reality like the fact that there is no reason for banning pistol grips, or both.

You must be envisioning Democratic nominees? Yes? No Republican could ever hate the Constitution that much.

This illustrates why it is important to vote for Republicans. A vote for a Democrat is a vote to repeal the US Constitution.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2012 06:08 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
I'd say anybody who's been afraid to face the world without packing a pistol since he was eight is a "mouse", yes. Time to put the gun down and stand on your own two feet for once, David. Why are you incapable of doing that?


Why do you freedom haters always resort to bigotry and name-calling whenever you are prevented from violating people's civil rights?
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2012 06:08 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
and the weapons weere semi autos with large magazines full of damaging rounds. Stop trying to trivialize the weapon and the act by nonsensical comparisons.



So Farmerman we wave a magic wand and all those 300 millions guns of all types disappears and someone with a fairly high IQ and a sick mind as in this case wish to both die and get some fame by killing large numbers of young children is it your position that he could not do so without firearms??????

Is it better if we have children blown up or burn to death or whatever those killers will come up with then being shot?

0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2012 06:08 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
Bullshit. It's called a civil society, and you've done your best to eradicate it.


He's not the one who stands opposed to civil rights.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2012 06:12 am
@RexRed,
RexRed wrote:
Don't take this the wrong way and my heart goes out for the victims in this tragic incident. My question is, what of Mexico?

For every mass shooting victim that has lost their lives in the USA, 100 Mexicans have died at the hands of the USA's wimpy and nearly non existent gun regulations.


Nonsense. US gun regulations do not cause deaths in Mexico.

And our gun regulations are neither wimpy nor nearly-non-existent.



RexRed wrote:
Some people say, "Well, the Mexican cartels will just get their guns another way..."


Actually, they ALREADY get their guns a different way. They tend to get their AK-47s from Hugo Chavez. They tend to get their other heavy weapons from the Mexican Army.

The only weapons that they tend to get from US gun stores are FN Five seveN pistols.



RexRed wrote:
If this was the case then we would not be to blame. But we ARE to blame...


No we aren't. Not unless you want to focus solely on the FN FiveseveN pistols to the exclusion of all the heavier weapons.



RexRed wrote:
Yes it is a sad time indeed and, I am just pointing out that there is much more to be sad about and a greater reason for some new, very strict enhancements to our current gun regulations.


No, there is no reason to ban harmless cosmetic features like pistol grips and flash suppressors.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2012 06:14 am
@Lustig Andrei,
Quote:
Yup. The 2d Amendment guarantees Oralloy and Dave the right to keep muzzle-loaders in their homes and carry them to the meeting house when necessary. And maybe a cap-and-ball single-shot pistol stuck in their belts. That's all it says.
\

How about a nice muzzle loading black power cannon full of grapeshot wheel to a public park on a weekend behind a pick-up truck?

Such cannons were around in the revolution war and they are now completely legal to own and are not even consider a firearm.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2012 06:25 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
Why do you freedom haters always resort to bigotry and name-calling whenever you are prevented from violating people's civil rights?


Odds is it not that is seems OK with these anti-gun nuts to carry a fire extinguisher around in a car or have in a house in case there is a fire without firemen right on the scene or a first aid kit if there is an accident and no paramedics on the scene but it is being a coward to have a firearm to deal with possible attacks when there is no law enforcement around?

My wife was a coward it would seems to carry a riot shotgun in her RV or private plane when traveling around the country by herself along with a 38.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  4  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2012 06:32 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Such cannons were around in the revolution war and they are now completely legal to own and are not even consider a firearm.
Bullshit, my neighbor owns 2 cannons and he had to fill out the forms with BATF, pay a tearly tax stamp (I tink the fireMarshall has that)

He also needs to have his ammo (powder) acquired in a registered manner and , if he would use "grape shot or anything explosive or withering, hed need to register the ammo and the charges (just as I have to for any explosives and caps I buy ON MY EXPLOSIVES (separate licenses for buying, transporting in a magazine, and USING)

Also, my neighbor MUST notify the FireMarshall about each time and shot he plans. (He shoots his cannons off every few 4th of July's)

Breech loading cannons are almot like buying a nuke, you become a "person of interest' in anything that happens in the county
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 17 Dec, 2012 06:43 am
@farmerman,
I to have friends who not only own real civil war cannons but build new muzzle loading cannons and they are not consider firearms.

One gentleman was ban from firing his cannon in or around Florida city except on new year and the four of July by the city fathers due to the noise.
 

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