Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

@oralloy,

So since a knife is just as effective why is a simple knife not enough for self defense? Why do you need a gun since a knife is the same thing?

1 Reply

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

Jumping off a bridge is usually pretty fatal. There is that whole "impact with the water" thing.

That must be why there are no cliff divers or Olympic high divers that are currently living.

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@Frank Apisa,

S

Quote:

o long as there is agitation for a particular action...there is "danger" that the agitation may lead to change.

Sorry but facts are fact and in 1861 slavery was not at risk in the south by any possible actions of the US government.

Lot of stresses between the north and south at the time such as tariffs on manufacture goods that the issue of slavery was not the center of.

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@spendius,

Quote:

Notice Bill the "early" and the "late" and the "early 1970s.

Who put the resources into creating the internet it surely was not the UK and just another example similar to not following through and pulling back from the development of jetliners after running into problem with the Comet and giving the market for jetliners to the US.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5225584)
S
Quote:
o long as there is agitation for a particular action...there is "danger" that the agitation may lead to change.

Sorry but facts are fact and in 1861 slavery was not at risk in the south by any possible actions of the US government.

Lot of stresses between the north and south at the time such as tariffs on manufacture goods that the issue of slavery was not the center of.

Nice dream...but the very instruments of secession speak otherwise.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Nice dream...but the very instruments of secession speak otherwise.

LOL getting people work up over trade tariffs and such enough to go to war is not an easy task but defensing our way of life and our rights to own slaves are.

However slavery in the south was not at risk.

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@H2O MAN,

Could parents, under your freedom loving scheme, refuse to send a kid to an elementary school that had armed guards posted around it on the grounds that they didn't want the kid to be exposed to guns and the general anxiety their presence indicates so forcibly? And demand funds for its home-schooling?

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@BillRM,

Quote:

However slavery in the south was not at risk.

Here are the opening remarks of the Secession documents of Georgia, Mississippi, and South Carolina:

Georgia:

The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. They have endeavored to weaken our security, to disturb our domestic peace and tranquility, and persistently refused to comply with their express constitutional obligations to us in reference to that property, and by the use of their power in the Federal Government have striven to deprive us of an equal enjoyment of the common Territories of the Republic

Mississippi:

Tthe momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.
That we do not overstate the dangers to our institution, a reference to a few facts will sufficiently prove.

South Carolina:

The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right. Since that time, these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue.

C'mon, Bill...the Southern States in 1861 DO NOT agree with you.

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@BillRM,

You said "created" Bill and not "develop".

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@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

So tell me, is the Magna Carta just a mouldering old document now, with no relevance at all, or is it still the foundation for British law?

It's not got a great deal of relevance now, this is the 21st Century not the 13th. There's no such such thing as 'British Law,' England and Scotland have different legal frameworks. Most of English law is based on Common Law that goes back to the Saxons.

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@izzythepush,

The diiiirectors of schools for Butler Pa have hired several retired state policemen to act as armed gurads for the various schools. Butlers a little town on the NW area of Pa and is an old rust belt town with several schools. The school board did not wait for any "PC reviews". It notified the governor, the state ed board, and acted within several sections of the PA school charters.

Very interesting, thats but phase 1 of my own plan

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@Frank Apisa,

Once more the facts are the facts an at worst the south in 1861 was looking at a long range lost of power in congress as more new free states came into the union then new slave states.

No plans or bills or laws in front of congress to free the slaves in any of the southern states and it was not on Lincoln administration agenda either only limiting the expansion of slavery into the new states to be.

The SC have upheld the fugitive slave act no matter how must the north hated that law and the SC ruled that no black man anywhere in the nation can be a citizen of the US.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Love that you are using the Rome roads oh sorry I mean the US created internet to expressed your pain over the US being the central of the Western world in almost every area of life.

Absolute nonsense again BillRM.

Quote:

Sir Timothy John "Tim" Berners-Lee, OM, KBE, FRS, FREng, FRSA (born 8 June 1955),[1] also known as "TimBL", is a British computer scientist, best known as the inventor of the World Wide Web.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee

I love that you're using the UK created language,(although it might be going a bit far to call your nonsensical grunting language,) to express your ill conceived ideas and shoddy thinking. English is the Globe's lingua franca after all.

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@spendius,

Like the Obama's, American parents have the final decision making power when it comes to
educating their successful downloads, they have options and I support their having options.

Parents should not send their spawn to government schools that are designated 'gun free zones'.
Sending a child to a 'gun free zone' is tantamount to child abuse.

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@BillRM,

Bill...

...read the Declaration of Secession...

...and when you have been shown to be WRONG...

...just accept it.

The Declaration of Secession says it was a danger.

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@H2O MAN,

Quote:

Like the Obama's, American parents have the final decision making power when it comes to
educating their successful downloads, they have options and I support their having options.

That does not answer the question I asked you. As usual.

Quote:

Sending a child to a 'gun free zone' is tantamount to child abuse.

How many Americans are you accusing of child abuse?

The NRA must cringe at some of the self-appointed spokespersons who claim to speak on its behalf and have bravely committed themselves to go to the barricades with it.

If the scientists found a way of converting self-assurance into dick length you guys would need wheelbarrows.

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@farmerman,

Quote:

The diiiirectors of schools for Butler Pa have hired several retired state policemen to act as armed gurads for the various schools. Butlers a little town on the NW area of Pa and is an old rust belt town with several schools. The school board did not wait for any "PC reviews". It notified the governor, the state ed board, and acted within several sections of the PA school charters.

Very interesting, thats but phase 1 of my own plan

I would be wary of blowing your own trumpet, fm, regarding such an unoriginal notion without answering certain questions which immediately come to mind in respect of putting your brilliant plan into operation.

There are about 100,000 schools in the USA. One armed guard for each school would obviously be insufficient. I imagine 3 will be necessary. At least. Which makes, if you can follow my mathematics, 300,000 armed guards. I suppose salaries, uniforms, equipment, office space, insurance and administration would need around $50,000 a year for each guard. Which is to say an annual budget of $15 billion.

The money would necessarily have to be appropriated by Congress as an addition to other education funds, cutting the amount from other budgets obviously, or found from within the present education budget. Or some combination of the two. Unless it is cultivated on trees.

Which other budgets would you cut if Congress finds the money? And if the education budget is required to find it you then have $15 billion being expended on schools for a non-educational purpose taken from those funds which have an educational function. Or are assumed to have in the ideal case.

Such estimates are notorious for being optimistic and often by surprisingly large multiples. (see Parkinson's Law).

It will be nice work for retired police and military I'm sure but it must be remembered that your solution is attempting to address a problem which is itself economically dysfunctional to the tune of an unquantifiable amount of money and that its chances of success against a cunning and determined attacker are, at best, pretty low.

There is also the problem that your solution directs the attacker to other locations where children gather. Sports fields, swimming pools, pantomimes, private birthday parties, cinema matinees, transportation and the like.

And the whole staggering cost is solely to provide certain types of personality with opportunities to go "bang, bang" at targets, tin cans, and the fauna of the forests, a pure psychological category, and delude them into thinking they could start a revolution against the government. (see Syria). And preventing such a revolution was probably the prime objective of the 2nd to begin with.

If you will flesh out your plan and extend it beyond the back of an envelope I'm sure we will all give it due consideration.

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@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

oralloy wrote:
If they were killed with a knife, would they still be alive?

Some of the deaths may not have happened.

Not likely. Gun availability has little impact on homicide and suicide rates.

reasoning logic wrote:

Do you think that accidental stabbings are less common than accidental shootings?

Don't know. Does it matter?

1 Reply

@H2O MAN,

H2O MAN wrote:

How Far Can Obama Go on Gun Control?

The author has very little clue how the government works. Seems to think we're a dictatorship.

Quote:

So what policies should the president consider, as long as he thinks courts will uphold his orders?

• He should end the "gun show loophole" to force people who buy guns at a gun show or through private sales and online shopping to have a background check: 92% of Americans favor this position per Gallup, while PPP puts support at 76%.

Obama lacks the power to do this by decree.

Quote:

• Obama should seek to ban high-capacity ammunition clips that contain more than 10 bullets: CNN/ORC, Gallup, Pew, PPP, and YouGov all show at least 53% of Americans in favor of this policy.

Obama lacks the power to do this by decree.

Quote:

• He should seek ways to ensure that people with poor mental health records do not get a gun: CNN/ORC found that 92% Americans did not want Americans with mental health problems to be in possession of a gun;

This might be within his power to do by decree, but Obama's proposals here are a grave violation of the Second Amendment that will be struck down by the courts.

He even wants to deny veterans their right to have a gun if they are mentally too disorganized to handle their own finances.

Quote:

• Obama should obviously prevent felons convicted of a violent crime from owning a gun: 94% and 92% approve of that measure, per PPP and CNN/ORC respectively.

That one is already law I believe?

Quote:

• He should try to make sure that guns, even if not recently purchased, would be registered with a government or law enforcement agency: CNN/ORC finds 78% agree with that policy.

Obama lacks the power to do that by decree.

Quote:

• Obama should look to ban outright bullets that explode or are designed to break through a bullet-proof vest: Pew found that 56% favor this position.

Not only does Obama lack the power to do that by decree, but any ban on hollowpoints would struck down as unconstitutional even if passed by the legislature.

(New Jersey, we're coming for you!)

Quote:

Also, I am by no means a constitutional scholar:

The author got this one right though.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

He should end the "gun show loophole" to force people who buy guns at a gun show or through private sales and online shopping to have a background check: 92% of Americans favor this position per Gallup, while PPP puts support at 76%.

That can only be because the words "background check" have a magical significance.

1 Reply

Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

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