64
   

Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

 
 
McTag
 
  3  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 05:46 pm
@H2O MAN,

Quote:
The decision to entrust Americans with arms was made long ago and it was put in writing when this constitutional republic was founded


But now that it is apparent that the earlier decision has brought with it a whole series of awful problems, maybe it's time for a commonsense approach.

When you're in a hole, they say, stop digging.
Then you can look for ways to backfill the hole.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 05:49 pm

Possible Obama Surrender On Assault Weapons

VP Biden has begun using language that speaks only of "limiting magazine size", while conspicuously avoiding any mention of an assault weapon ban.

I've heard it on the news twice now in the past hour.

Wonder how much it hurt them to have to accept reality. Mr. Green
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 05:55 pm
@oralloy,


They are committed to banning all guns and they are patient enough to make it happen slowly by fracturing our constitutional
rights into smaller, bite size pieces. Each inch that we give up will eventually become the rope and noose that hangs us.
spendius
 
  2  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 05:58 pm
@oralloy,
If true it would really hurt. It would show that the speech at the memorial ceremony was grandstanding and every bit as bad as somebody said it was with no exaggerations or hyperbole in sight.

Possible understated.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  4  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 06:00 pm
@McTag,
Quote:
The decision to entrust Americans with arms was made long ago and it was put in writing when this constitutional republic was founded


bahahahaha

And women didn't vote. And slave holding was legal. and ah, **** it - all the fish in that barrel are dead.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 06:01 pm
@oralloy,


An event that shifts focus back to jobs, the debt and our economy is what's needed right away.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 06:04 pm
@hingehead,
hingehead wrote:

Quote:
The decision to entrust Americans with arms was made long ago and it was put in writing when this constitutional republic was founded


bahahahaha

And women didn't vote. And slave holding was legal. and ah, **** it - all the fish in that barrel are dead.


Slaves were finally permitted to own guns and they became free.
Women are also permitted to own guns.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  2  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 06:07 pm
@H2O MAN,
Focus is no use H2O. They have already proved that.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 06:21 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:
They are committed to banning all guns and they are patient enough to make it happen slowly by fracturing our constitutional rights into smaller, bite size pieces. Each inch that we give up will eventually become the rope and noose that hangs us.


The NRA still plans to fight the magazine ban in Congress.

I can't predict how it will turn out, but "a fight were magazines are the only thing at risk" is much better than "a fight where both assault weapons and magazines are at risk".


Of course, if an assault weapons ban were passed, it would be much more likely to be struck down by the courts than a stand alone magazine ban.

So it's possible that a long-term strategy could have been devised to allow an assault weapons ban to pass, just so the courts would strike the entire thing down.

But that's quite a gamble, as it would depend on the courts doing the right thing in the end. If that had been the ultimate course of events, it would be a lot more nervewracking. I probably would have ended up with an ulcer.


All in all, I'm happy with the idea of taking assault weapons off the table and limiting the scope of the battle to magazines alone. I'm sure the NRA will still put up a vigorous fight.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  4  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 08:35 pm
@McTag,
McTag wrote:

Deciding whether ordinary people in the USA should be entrusted
with some or all guns, it seems like some sanity is beginning to dawn.
Government has no authority to trust nor distrust,
in that matter. At the Foundation of this republic,
government was given permission to EXIST,
subject to certain conditions, of which 1 was that it have NO jurisdiction
qua a citizen's possession of personal weapons.

Ergo, government can only interfere in that issue by USURPATION; government by hoax.

That is not my definition of "sanity".





David
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 08:39 pm
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/215758_411134085633934_328236227_n.jpg
firefly
 
  1  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 09:01 pm
Quote:
Gun control 'dream team' is born: Can it rival NRA for political firepower?
By Patrik Jonsson, Staff writer
January 10, 2013

A month after the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre, a once-moribund gun-control movement this week unleashed a broad, coordinated campaign aimed at curbing America's fascination with high-powered firearms by, in part, blunting the tip of the gun lobby's spear: the National Rifle Association.

Heeding President Obama's call for swift action after 20-year-old Adam Lanza used an assault-style rifle to kill 20 grade school children and six staffers in Connecticut, a sort of dream team of gun-control advocates has in effect launched a multipronged attack that could change national sentiment about gun control, in part by catching the NRA at a time when its political influence is low, say political scientists and gun policy experts.

In Washington, Vice President Joe Biden is meeting this week with various constituencies, including the NRA and Hollywood producers, as part of a presidential task force, even as New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg's Mayors Against Illegal Guns went public with a new national ad featuring the mother of a child slain during the 2010 attempted assassination of former US Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D) of Arizona.

On Tuesday, Ms. Giffords, a Second Amendment supporter, launched her own political-action committee aimed at raising money to combat the NRA's political influence. New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D), meanwhile, worked to push through new gun restrictions after noting that "guns have both a noble and tragic tradition in America and in New York State."

On Wednesday, Mr. Obama himself hinted that he may take some kind of "executive action" against gun violence, though experts note that any major initiatives must come through Congress.

"I think there's a large wave [of gun-control advocacy] building, and I think the White House is trying to have it all sort of come in the same direction," says Robert Spitzer, a political scientist at the State University of New York in Cortland and the author of "The Politics of Gun Control." "You have the Bloomberg people, the Brady people, now Giffords, and there's a sense among the political leadership in Washington that they have a moment to really get stuff done and to bring all these groups to bear in a consistent way. This is not a normal moment; it's not normal politics."

The emergence of Mr. Bloomberg, a former Republican, as well as Giffords, a centrist Democrat who owns weapons for self-protection, and her husband, astronaut Mark Kelly, not only gives gun-control advocates recognizable and heroic faces, but it also is beginning to coalesce a largely fractious movement that has had only a lean grass-roots constituency.

"One of the things that the gun-control movement has always faced is an abundance of underfunded groups that don't work together well," says Kristin Goss, a political scientist at Duke University and author of "Disarmed: The Missing Movement for Gun Control in America." That, she says, may now be changing.

Bloomberg and Giffords also help to change the image of the gun-control movement from one of "gun grabbers" to one of centrist Americans simply looking for common-sense change, perhaps in the form of an assault weapons ban, bans on large ammunition clips, or the creation of a national gun registry.

Giffords not only has cachet as a Second Amendment-supporting gun victim, but she and Mr. Kelly hope to raise as much as $20 million to help fund political candidates willing to support some gun-control measures in congressional districts where the NRA has been prominent. The effort also appears aimed at helping to sustain momentum for proposals already in Congress and those that will emerge next Tuesday from Vice President Biden's working group on gun violence.

"I can't imagine a better team," writes novelist Douglas Anthony Cooper in a Huffington Post op-ed Wednesday titled "Now We Know Who's Going to Take Down the NRA." Bloomberg alone has "singlehandedly demonstrated that the NRA can indeed be conquered in the manner proposed: by doing precisely what [NRA chief lobbyist Wayne] LaPierre's militia does, with comparable funding, and – here's the crucial difference – principles."

The NRA isn't going quietly into the night, of course. Two reasons it remains a powerful lobby: a $300 million annual budget and a huge, active grass-roots constituency capable of influencing local, state, and national political races. Indeed, 100,000 people have joined the NRA in the past 18 days, the group reports. And while polls show an uptick in public backing for more gun restrictions in the wake of the Sandy Hook shootings, support also remains strong for gun rights enshrined in the Second Amendment and recently affirmed by the US Supreme Court.

Gun-control advocates have in recent years acknowledged that the NRA has largely prevailed in the cultural debate over guns, exemplified by a big increase in the number of concealed-weapons carriers and the proliferation of self-defense "Stand Your Ground" laws (though the latter have become more controversial since the shooting last year of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fla.).

Responding to Governor Cuomo's suggestion that other states are likely to follow New York's lead on tighter gun restrictions, NRA President David Keene on Wednesday told the Brooklyn GOP Radio podcast that "I was amazed he said other states will follow New York. They haven't done that in the past. New York already has very tough gun laws, as you well know. Much of what the governor proposed, in terms of so-called assault weapons and the like, isn't going to make any difference one way or another in terms of violence of any kind in the state."

Recently, however, the NRA has done itself no favors by its answer to the Sandy Hook slaughter, with Mr. LaPierre railing against a coarsening culture and calling for a better mental health registry and for stationing armed guards at all US schools to better protect them. Critics characterized his unrelenting resistance to any new controls on guns as out of touch and insensitive.

"While I don't think it's likely that there will be major change [in gun laws], the door is now open," says Mr. Spitzer at SUNY-Cortland. "The main reason why is because the NRA and its influence is at a low point at the same time when public attention on [the gun issue] is at its high point, so there's an inverse relationship between the NRA's political influence and the degree to which the gun issue is in front of the American public. The Connecticut shootings shocked, outraged, and mobilized the public and riveted the public's attention in a way we've just not seen with past mass shootings."

It remains to be seen what proposals will win favor, but some political scientists suggest that banner issues, such as a ban on assault-style weapons, might fade in favor of mundane, but perhaps more effective, efforts such as shoring up mental health records, which Obama may be able to accomplish with executive powers.

While many gun enthusiasts deride Obama for his past support for an assault weapons ban, experts say the president is keenly aware that this is a unique moment in America's gun debate and an opportunity for those who hope to see fewer guns in fewer hands. Hence, says Spitzer, Obama will probably address ways to reduce gun violence in both his Jan. 21 inaugural address and his forthcoming State of the Union address, and work to build momentum for the Biden proposals.

Meanwhile, Giffords, Bloomberg, Cuomo, and a handful of other high-profile figures are expected to ramp up a well-funded ground campaign to try to challenge the NRA and its opposition to any kind of gun control.

"If they continue to make it a priority, it could succeed," says Spitzer.

http://www.csmonitor.com/layout/set/print/USA/Politics/2013/0110/Gun-control-dream-team-is-born-Can-it-rival-NRA-for-political-firepower

OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 09:03 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:



They are committed to banning all guns and they are patient enough to make it happen slowly by fracturing our constitutional
rights into smaller, bite size pieces. Each inch that we give up will eventually become the rope and noose that hangs us.
The USSC remains on the side of historical accuracy and Individual freedom; we remain OK.





David
oralloy
 
  0  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 11:24 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Gun control 'dream team' is born: Can it rival NRA for political firepower?


Nope.

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing



Quote:
A month after the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre, a once-moribund gun-control movement this week unleashed a broad, coordinated campaign aimed at curbing America's fascination with high-powered firearms by, in part, blunting the tip of the gun lobby's spear: the National Rifle Association.

Heeding President Obama's call for swift action after 20-year-old Adam Lanza used an assault-style rifle to kill 20 grade school children and six staffers in Connecticut, a sort of dream team of gun-control advocates has in effect launched a multipronged attack that could change national sentiment about gun control, in part by catching the NRA at a time when its political influence is low, say political scientists and gun policy experts.


The "low political influence" that had the House Democrats abandoning a ban on assault weapons a few hours after the NRA broke their silence a week after the shooting???



Quote:
In Washington, Vice President Joe Biden is meeting this week with various constituencies, including the NRA and Hollywood producers, as part of a presidential task force,


You mean the presidential task force that has just dropped all mention of any assault weapon ban from their proposals???



Quote:
On Tuesday, Ms. Giffords, a Second Amendment supporter, launched her own political-action committee aimed at raising money to combat the NRA's political influence.


Nonsense. If Giffords supported the Second Amendment, she would not be opposing the NRA.



Quote:
New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D), meanwhile, worked to push through new gun restrictions after noting that "guns have both a noble and tragic tradition in America and in New York State."


The Supreme Court will have his restrictions struck down soon enough.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 11:31 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
H2O MAN wrote:
They are committed to banning all guns and they are patient enough to make it happen slowly by fracturing our constitutional
rights into smaller, bite size pieces. Each inch that we give up will eventually become the rope and noose that hangs us.


The USSC remains on the side of historical accuracy and Individual freedom; we remain OK.


I'll feel a bit better if we can make it back to a Republican administration while there are still five pro-Constitution justices on the court.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  2  
Fri 11 Jan, 2013 03:34 am
Twitter can be so nasty in so few characters

Quote:

StillJohnCA Think Gooder(retweeted by StuDiligence)
NEWSFLASH: My friend said he joined a support group for paranoid white boys with small penises. He even showed me his #NRA membership card.
3 hours ago13
McTag
 
  3  
Fri 11 Jan, 2013 04:48 am

To the armchair gunslingers:

Good morning! Who are you going to be today? John Wayne? Gary Cooper? Robert de Niro? Daniel Boone? Davy Crockett?
BillRM
 
  2  
Fri 11 Jan, 2013 07:29 am
@McTag,
Quote:
Good morning! Who are you going to be today? John Wayne? Gary Cooper? Robert de Niro? Daniel Boone? Davy Crockett?


Just one of the hundred of millions or so gun owners in the US.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Fri 11 Jan, 2013 07:38 am
@jcboy,
Here is a gift for you to show that gay couples are now on equal footing in all areas of life and death.

http://qsaltlake.com/2013/01/07/gay-salt-lake-couple-victims-of-murder-suicide/

Gay Salt Lake couple victims of murder-suicide
Salt Lake City Medical Examiner’s Office has determined that a 70-year-old man killed his 67-year-old domestic partner and then himself on Friday, Jan. 4.
Salt Lake City Police Department officers and fire personnel responded to the house at 1011 S. 400 East on a welfare check just after 10 a.m. Friday after a hospice worker was unable to reach them by phone. They were last seen alive on Wednesday, Jan. 2.
Police say no note was left and that the department has never before been called to the home. They are not calling their deaths suspicious.
Neighbors said the couple has lived in the house for more than 20 years and that the men took care of each other.
The couple’s names have not been released as police seek to locate next-of-kin for both men.
0 Replies
 
33export
 
  1  
Fri 11 Jan, 2013 07:42 am
@McTag,
It's just a matter of time - the daily body count goes on in the meantime.. For now, let's
wait to see how this issue plays in Peoria.
 

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