64
   

Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

 
 
mysteryman
 
  3  
Thu 3 Jan, 2013 06:39 pm
@McTag,
Quote:
Yes of course there is. Guns are designed to kill, and do it very efficiently, and have no other design use. If you buy and keep a gun, you are part of the problem.


Does this include hunting weapons?
What about people that are required to have a firearm as part of their jobs?
Are they part of the problem?

What about the members of the US Olympic shooting team?
They all own their own weapons, so does that make them part of the problem?
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Thu 3 Jan, 2013 07:22 pm
@McTag,
Quote:
Guns are designed to kill, and do it very efficiently, and have no other design use. If you buy and keep a gun, you are part of the problem.


Guns in private hands in the US are no more used to killed humans then cars are.

There are 300 hundred millions guns in private hands in the US and only .00001 or so had killed a human or harm a human.

A gun is design to put a small bits of metal downrange at speed and that can indeed kill however the guns that kill do so mainly on game animals and the others are almost all used for target shooting and just in case self defense tools as otherwise the population of the county would be zero within a week or so.

There are 5 to 10 millions so call assault rifles and only a very few used to harm or kill anyone.

It not guns that are the problem any more then it is subways or gasoline or a tree limb or rat poison and so on.

JTT
 
  0  
Thu 3 Jan, 2013 07:29 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:
I didnt forget McCarthy, but thats not what the author of the article said.
He said the communist party was declared illegal, and it wasnt.


You're learning how to parados people and what they say, MM. That's good. It should help you immensely in your debates.

Have you ever heard of exaggeration for emphasis, hyperbole, irony,
sarcasm, MM?

Look 'em up and then school Finn.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Thu 3 Jan, 2013 08:05 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Guns in private hands in the US are no more used to killed humans then cars are.

The arguments you put forth get more absurd and funnier with each post. Laughing

Guns are specifically made to be weapons, cars are not. Laughing

Guns are definitely used, considerably more often, to intentionally kill humans, than cars are. They are the most common murder weapon in this country.
Quote:
however the guns that kill do so mainly on game animals and the others are almost all used for target shooting and just in case self defense tools as otherwise the population of the county would be zero within a week or so.

Have you checked the figures for gun violence in Chicago and Detroit lately? I don't think they do a lot of game hunting in those cities, and a lot of people seem to be using other people for their "target shooting".
JTT
 
  1  
Thu 3 Jan, 2013 08:28 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
They are the most common murder weapon in this country.


Do you think that US supplied guns are also the most common murder weapon used in, say, Colombia? Or are there other more lethal weapons that the US terrorists supply to brutalize indigenous peoples, FF?

Echoes of Vietnam (Colombia)

by Rachel Massey

Rachel's Environment and Health News / Environmental Research Foundation, [email protected]

In July, President Clinton signed into law a $1.3 billion aid package to step up the "war on drugs" in Colombia and neighboring countries in South America. Of this sum, $860 million is designated for Colombia itself, mainly as aid to the military. For three decades Colombia has been torn by civil war, and the Colombian military has a well-documented record of human rights abuses including disappearances, arbitrary detentions, kidnappings, and torture of civilians. The U.S. Congress made its "drug war" military aid dependent upon the Colombian government improving its human rights profile, but in August President Clinton waived this requirement so that funds could begin to flow south. This month Mr. Clinton may waive the human rights requirements once again so a second installment of aid can be released.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/South_America/Echoes_Vietnam.html

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Thu 3 Jan, 2013 08:31 pm
Firefly I did not know you was dining in Denny........... Drunk

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-cops-dennys-guns-20130103,0,6803203.story

Are you a cop? Do you carry a gun? Don't go to the Denny's in Belleville, Ill.

You are not allowed, the police chief says. Not after what happened Tuesday.

The flapjacks -- sorry, the flap -- began when several on-duty detectives with the Belleville Police Department dropped in to Denny's for some on-duty noshing, according to local media.

They had their badges and their guns, but as detectives, not their uniforms, according to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. This bothered a patron who then complained to a manager, David Rice, who then complained to one of the detectives: Please take your gun to your car or leave. No guns allowed.

"Upon further discussion, we became aware the individual was a plain-clothed police officer," Denny's spokeswoman Liz DiTrapano said in a statement, according to the News-Democrat. "Denny's policy permits law enforcement officials to carry their firearms in the restaurant, and we regret any misunderstanding."

Denny's sure does, because despite the efforts of a general manager who tried (and failed) to clear up the misunderstanding before the detectives left, the department's chief banned on-duty and off-duty police in uniform from returning to the restaurant.

"This was an insult, a slap in the face, to those detectives and to all of the men and women who proudly wear the uniform or badge and serve in law enforcement," Police Chief William Clay said, according to the News-Democrat.

"This individual [Rice] was the manager of Denny's. He therefore speaks for Denny's, in my mind. This policy effectively prohibits on-duty sworn police officers from dining in a Denny's Restaurant, but allows 'registered sex offenders,' 'felons' and or 'pedophiles' to enjoy a dining experience in Denny's."

ALSO:



0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  3  
Thu 3 Jan, 2013 08:33 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Guns are definitely used, considerably more often, to intentionally kill humans, than cars are. They are the most common murder weapon in this country.


Not really they arent.
I havent added the totals up, but according to the FBI statistics, the numbers are about even for firearms and other weapons...

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-20

BillRM
 
  0  
Thu 3 Jan, 2013 08:38 pm
@firefly,
Once more silly person there are more guns then adults in the US and almost none of then are used to killed anyone in the long lives times of those firearms.

footnote two of my firearms had been in the family for four repeat four generations with one having the blood of a few small game animals but that is it.

There is no problem of gun violence but a problem of people violence no matter want the tools happen to be..................

What get me is the idea in your illogical mind that if the Newtown killer could not get a firearm he would not had gone on to any of a numbers of others ways to kills those kids.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Thu 3 Jan, 2013 08:39 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:
Not really they arent.
I havent added the totals up, but according to the FBI statistics, the numbers are about even for firearms and other weapons...


Do not confused her with the facts.......
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Thu 3 Jan, 2013 08:52 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:
I havent added the totals up, but according to the FBI statistics, the numbers are about even for firearms and other weapons...

I don't think so..,.
Quote:

Assault or Homicide

(Data are for the U.S.)

Mortality

All homicides
•Number of deaths: 16,799
•Deaths per 100,000 population: 5.5
•Cause of death rank: 15

Firearm homicides
•Number of deaths: 11,493
•Deaths per 100,000 population: 3.7
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm


Quote:
Homicide trends in the U.S.
Weapons used
Homicides are most often committed with guns,
especially handguns

Like the homicide rate generally, gun-involved incidents increased sharply in the late 1980's and early 1990's before falling to a low in 1999. The number of gun-involved homicides increased thereafter to levels experienced in the mid 1980's.
During this same time period, homicides involving weapons other than firearms have declined slightly.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/weapons.png

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/weapage.png
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/intimates.cfm#intweap
mysteryman
 
  3  
Thu 3 Jan, 2013 09:02 pm
@firefly,
You obviously didnt look at the FBI crime stats I linked to, did you.
The numbers I linked to are from 2011.
firefly
 
  1  
Thu 3 Jan, 2013 09:08 pm
@mysteryman,
And you didn't get any summary stats for 2011.

Check this out, MM. It's murder in America, 2000-2010. Click on "How"--firearms leads considerably.
http://projects.wsj.com/murderdata/#view=all&w=f
BillRM
 
  0  
Thu 3 Jan, 2013 09:20 pm
@firefly,
The break down does not matter as there is no reason repeat no reason to assumed that if all firearm disappear the people who picked firearms to killed would not cheerfully use some other means to do their killings.

There is nothing of magic about firearms or evilness either given that only a tiny tiny percent of all firearms are ever use to harm or kill anyone and that include so call assault rifles.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Thu 3 Jan, 2013 09:23 pm
Quote:
Bloomberg News
American Gun Deaths to Exceed Traffic Fatalities by 2015
By Chris Christoff and Ilan Kolet
December 19, 2012

Guns and cars have long been among the leading causes of non-medical deaths in the U.S. By 2015, firearm fatalities will probably exceed traffic fatalities for the first time, based on data compiled by Bloomberg.

While motor-vehicle deaths dropped 22 percent from 2005 to 2010, gun fatalities are rising again after a low point in 2000, according to the Atlanta-based Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Shooting deaths in 2015 will probably rise to almost 33,000, and those related to autos will decline to about 32,000, based on the 10-year average trend.

As the nation reels from the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, the shift shows the effects of public policy, said Garen Wintemute, director of the Violence Prevention Research Program at the University of California, Davis.

The fall in traffic deaths resulted from safer vehicles, restricted privileges for young drivers and seat-belt and other laws, he said. By contrast, “we’ve made policy decisions that have had the impact of making the widest array of firearms available to the widest array of people under the widest array of conditions.” While fewer households have guns, people who own guns are buying more of them, he said.

The Dec. 14 slaying of 20 children and six adults at the school in Newtown, Connecticut, reignited a debate over gun violence. While mass murders are rare, shootings aren’t. About 85 Americans are shot dead daily -- 53 of them suicides. Every day, one of those killed by firearms is 14 or younger.

‘Game Changer’

Of the total, the CDC data show, 16 are between the ages of 15 and 24, mostly homicide victims. Wintemute said more than 200 people go to U.S. emergency rooms every day with gunshot wounds.

Gun deaths by homicide, suicide or accident peaked at 37,666 in 1993 before declining to a low of 28,393 in 2000, the data show. Since then the total has risen to 31,328 in 2010, an increase of 2,935, or eight more victims a day.

At the same time, violent crime and murder rates have fallen in the U.S., said Daniel Webster, director of the Johns Hopkins University Center for Gun Policy and Research in Baltimore. Homicides may be up this year, though the murder rate from 2006 to 2011 fell 19 percent, to 4.7 for every 100,000 people, Webster said in an e-mail.

While recent gun sales haven’t led to an increase in crime, research indicates that over time, higher levels of gun ownership are associated with increased rates of homicide and suicide, Webster said. The Sandy Hook killings are a “potential game changer” for gun-control laws and the response to it unlike any incident he’s seen in 20 years of studying gun violence, he said.

Police Crackdowns

“We haven’t had a year like 2012 for mass shootings before, with each one being more disturbing than the last,” Webster said. “It’s harder to chalk this up to random acts than to flaws in our gun laws.”

The drop in gun deaths since 1993 may be a result of less violence from drug trafficking, more people incarcerated and more police crackdowns on illegal firearms, according to both Webster and Wintemute.

The percentage of gun-owning households has fallen since 2004 to 32 percent in 2010, according to the General Social Survey by NORC at the University of Chicago. The survey indicates at least 1.8 firearms per household, or at least 70 million in households nationwide, said Tom Smith, the survey’s principal investigator.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-12-18/american-gun-deaths-to-exceed-traffic-fatalities-by-2015


It's hard to see how we don't have a public health and safety problem due to gun violence in this country.
BillRM
 
  0  
Thu 3 Jan, 2013 09:27 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
It's hard to see how we don't have a public health and safety problem due to gun violence in this country.


So once more the guns do not cause people to wish to killed and if there was no guns the desire to killed your mate or your boss or your whatever would not likely disappear.

By you way Firefly do you own stock in the knife making industry with the hope of getting guns bans and turning all those killers into customers of those knives firms?
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Thu 3 Jan, 2013 09:43 pm
Quote:
Thursday, Jan 3, 2013
Gun deaths rampant after Sandy Hook massacre
The numbers are simply staggering: An average of 18 people have been killed each day since December 14

By Laura Gottesdiener, Alternet

There have been more than 400 guns deaths since the Newtown massacre on December 14, according to a new interactive project between Slate.com and the anonymous twitter user @gundeaths.

The two launched the project because, as Slate writes, there are few real-time chronicles of daily gun deaths in the United States, despite the daily mention of firearms and gun politics in the media since the shooting. In fact, the onslaught of reporting on guns has been so intense, The Huffington Post published an article this morning with the headline “So You’re Bored of the Newtown Massacre?”

Gun deaths have been a daily reality since the Newtown massacre less than three weeks ago, with an average of 18 people dying each day as a result of a fatal shooting, according to the data compiled by @gundeaths. Six of those deaths have been children under the age of 13, and another 21 were youths under the age of 17.

The vast majority of people who have died as a result of gun violence since Newtown were men. Out of the 406 fatal shootings in @gundeaths compilation, only 49 of the victims were women. For teenagers, the gender gap is even starker: 19 boys and only 2 girls have died of gun-related violence since Newtown.

The anonymous twitter user @gundeaths began reporting every instance of a fatal shooting he could find after the Aurora, Colorado, mass shooting on July 20. His data set is incomplete, meaning that the number of gun deaths since Newtown likely exceeds 406.

The Huffington Post recently undertook a similar project, chronicling the first 100 gun deaths since the Sandy Hook massacre. According to their count, the United States surpassed 100 gun deaths on December 21, exactly one week after Newtown.

Other nations have experienced similar mass shootings in their histories. But nearly all have passed considerable gun safety legislation in the wake of their tragedies, which has dramatically reduced the number of future gun-related deaths.

The United States leads the world in having the most number of guns per person.

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/03/gun_deaths_rampant_after_sandy_hook_massacre/
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2013 06:15 am
@firefly,
Quote:
It's hard to see how we don't have a public health and safety problem due to gun violence in this country.


You wish to end a large percents of the violence in this country and such countries as Mexico end the so call war on drugs.

What we are doing to Mexico is shameful and this in spite of Mexican guns laws that are more then tight compare to even such states as New York.

What the hell we do not need are more laws that a large fraction of the population are not going to obey and open up another flood gate of funds into the underground and increase our prison population beside.

After we reduced the insane drain the criminal justice system is causing us we can placed the funds into better mental health treatments programs.

Once more laws are not magical and bad laws can cause far more harm then good as had been proven time after time after time.

Last comment there is not such thing as guns violence as guns are just one of the tools used to commit violence not the cause of the violence.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2013 08:09 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

I didnt forget McCarthy, but thats not what the author of the article said.
He said the communist party was declared illegal, and it wasnt.

So he was wrong on one particular detail, and thus all discussions about gun control can be dismissed?

Sweet... that'll save me a ton of time....
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2013 08:14 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
Guns are definitely used, considerably more often, to intentionally kill humans, than cars are. They are the most common murder weapon in this country.


Not really they arent.
I havent added the totals up, but according to the FBI statistics, the numbers are about even for firearms and other weapons...

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-20

All this tells me is that you're not capable of reading, analyzing statistics, or estimating. That chart clearly shows that firearms were involved in the majority of murders.
0 Replies
 
George
 
  3  
Fri 4 Jan, 2013 08:38 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:
. . . I havent added the totals up, but according to the FBI statistics,
the numbers are about even for firearms and other weapons...
I downloaded the spreadsheet and ran the numbers.
Total murders = 12,664
Firearms = 8,583
 

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