Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

@firefly,

I'm saying even if guns are banned, it is bound to happen. So what is your next alternative, ban knives? Then what, any sharp objects (pencils, pens, chopsticks)? Then what next, never letting your kids outside your home?

Did you ever imagine you have to deal with situation like this?
The mother had 3 legal guns and the mentally ill son had access to them and killed these kids... It shouldn't be like that.

1 Reply

@Val Killmore,

You seem to be missing the point. Such relatively small scale killings with a knife or some such concealed weapon are nearly impossible to stop. However, obtaining an efficient killing machine such as an assault rifle, COULD be preventable. This is about the SCALE of such mass killing tragedy and the efficiency.

With a knife as the weapon of choice, that's up close and personal and it presents a risk to the killer of beiong overpowered. With an assault rifle, you can be a great distance.

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@BillRM,

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/546463_524210347598410_386298527_n.jpg

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@firefly,

Sorry dear but the difference between a so call semi-auto assault rife and any other semi-auto rifle is it looks not it abilities to kill.

As far as legally carrying firearms it is about as insane as carrying a fire extinguisher in your car just in case.

In all the years I had a fire extinguisher in my car I only needed to use it once to save someone else car on the side of the road with an engine fire.

So I am insane to carry that fire extinguisher is that your thinking Firefly and the sane persons would just assume that there will be firemen around to deal with a rare problem or in the case of the gun a policeman or woman?

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@Foofie,

typical bullshit obfuscation.

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@Ragman,

I just wanted to get the point across that the problem is really not with guns per se.
I can see politicians putting a ban on all automatic and semi-automatic weapons for use outside of military and law enforcement and limit the number of weapons an individual could own to one or two after this highly tragic incident. However, beware if that were ever to happen, ss soon as the legislation hits the table, folks would go out of their way to hoard the big buns while they are still legal.
Even if this stricter gun law passes, you assume that there will not be a black market for these assault rifles.
Mexico has one of the toughest gun laws, but that hasn't prevented the gangs and criminals from attaining these assault rifles from US, China, Russia,North Korea, etc etc (even if US is taken out out their trading networks they still have alternative dealers to attain them from).

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@Ragman,

Quote:

killing machine such as an assault rifle, COULD be preventable

How? as I just checked and found there are over 300 millions firearms in private hands not the 200 millions in the US I had been postings earlier and a large percent of those firearms are semi auto rifles and all semi-auto rifles whether call an assault rifle or not are equally deadly.

There is no magic about the name assault rifle and looking like a military weapon.

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@BillRM,

Since all are equally deadly Bill, wouldn't you agree that having a single shot weapon is all anyone needs to be safe? Your argument cuts both ways. You can't argue they are the same and then argue you need more firepower.

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@Val Killmore,

Quote:

Mexico has one of the toughest gun laws, but that hasn't prevented the gangs and criminals from attaining these assault rifles ...

What difference does it make with having a law that they don't enforce and the political and police system is fraught with corruption? They have ignored or have been ineffective at enforcement for so long that their drug smugglers are so deeply entrenched and better equipped than their military.

Reducing access by civilians (especially mentally ill ones) to para-military weapons such as assault rifles may lower the potential death count. Why has there been such an increase in mass killings in USA in the last 6 years? The answer is access to para-military weapons.

Granted, we are a bat-**** crazy society...but I don't think all of a sudden in 6 yrs it has gone over a tipping point. IMHO, it's about having access to such weapons.

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@Val Killmore,

Quote:

all automatic and semi-automatic weapons for use outside of military and law enforcement and limit the number of weapons an individual could own to one or two after this highly tragic incident.

Take note a level action rifle rate of fire is very little slower then semi-auto rifles and the first ones in the 1860s had 16 rounds in their magazines so a modern level action rifle could had kill those poor defenseless children just as will as an assault rifle.

Well we could go back to match lock black power guns I guess.

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@firefly,

Quote:

We have a systemic problem with violence in this country, and more guns, and more powerful guns, that are essentially weapons of mass destruction, not only fail to address that problem, they actually increase the problem. Guns only make it easier for people to act, and react, with violence, in fact they encourage and facillitate it, which is why the problem continues to escalate.

A meaningful discussion does have to include the "gun issue", including the easy availability of weapons of mass destruction, as well as a more general consideration of how we are promoting violence in our culture, and how to deal with violence, and minimize it, and how to promote better solutions, and better alternatives, for resolving problems than violent actions and reactions.

I agree with most of what you said. Bottom line, we are a very violent species, an animal that acts out to get what it wants. The meek shall not inherit the earth. And you are also right, our mental health problems only confuse this issue. There are a great many mental health problems that simply have no solution, other than protecting the innocent public or family. The one point to this issue that I don't understand is the reluctance to reduce and control access to weapons that allow so much destruction and death. Given that we are predisposed to violence, why allow such tools that provide a means to inflict such damage?

1 Reply

@parados,

Quote:

Since all are equally deadly Bill, wouldn't you agree that having a single shot weapon is all anyone needs to be safe? Your argument cuts both ways. You can't argue they are the same and then argue you need more firepower.

I know there must be some logical in the above posting let see it we can find it.

Do you think that rifles with the name of an assault in them have inherently larger magazines in them then other semi-auto rifle or have a faster rate of fire or what?

My argument is there is no magic in the name assault rifle that turn such rifles into more deadly killing machines then other such rifles.

Second even the first level action gun in the 1860s had 16 rounds and a rate of fire of one round per second so we had have very rapid fire and deadly rifles for the last 150 years.

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@BillRM,

Yeh, that old Henry with the tubular magazine pre-dated Winchesters by at least 10 years. The Rebels called it that gun the Yankees load on Sunday and then fire all week. There's very little new under the sun.

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@Ragman,

Quote:

Why has there been such an increase in mass killings in USA in the last 6 years? The answer is access to para-military weapons

We had have rifle weapons that could do mass killings for a 150 years or so and my theory of why the mass killings are coming more commons is simply that days on days of coverage of such events in loving details including the focus on the killers is what is giving those with sick minds the idea of following suit.

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@Val Killmore,

Quote:

The mother had 3 legal guns and the mentally ill son had access to them and killed these kids...

We don't know that he was "mentally ill".

That mother's guns were also used against her--she was shot multiple times in the head.

When you keep guns in your home, and available, you run the risk they will be used against you...particularly in a domestic dispute.

You run the risk they could be stolen, or taken, and used to kill 20 6 and 7 year olds at their school...

Connecticut has fairly strict gun laws.
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2007/rpt/2007-R-0369.htm

This killer didn't even have to obtain these weapons on his own, they were available in his own home--thanks to his mother, the "gun enthusiast".

Yup, keeping guns in your home really makes you safer, doesn't it, Mrs Lanza?

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@firefly,

Quote:

Yup, keeping guns in your home really makes you safer, doesn't it, Mrs Lanza?

I would bet the woman had big knives in the home also Firefly.......

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@BillRM,

But knives didn't kill her, did they...

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@firefly,

firefly wrote:

We don't know that he was "mentally ill".

You can think of some way to conceive of his actions as somehow sane?

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@firefly,

When armies go to war, their weapon of choice are assault rifles or an equiv. They leave their knives at home. Such a weapon provides efficiency and sufficient distance from the harm and blood spill that a knife up close and personal would allow.

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@firefly,

Quote:

But knives didn't kill her, did they...

He did used guns however is it your theory that if he did not have access to guns he would not had kill his mother by some other means?

The guns somehow was not simply the means/tools but the cause of his killing his mother?

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Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

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