Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

@JTT,

JTT wrote:

Quote:
U r a hypocrit

I think there's a famous saying that describes this situation to a T. It eludes me now. Something to do with houses, maybe the kitchen.

Does it, maybe, have anything to do withpots and pans, JTT?

0 Replies

@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

My point is that if women, that had children in their youth and are now over 40, were the individuals with concealed carry permits, I would feel quite safe.

well sure, cause there's nobody more rational than a pre-menopausal or menopausal woman Twisted Evil

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@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

I'm all for America having a real debate about guns and gun control but I worry that the true problem, "boy culture" as Foofie put it, will go unexamined if me make this all about gun control.

Well, the "boy culture" may be exacerbated by that natural hormone, "testosterone."

However, a change for the better doesn't even need laws, in my opinion. Women on their own can make the change. Let me explain. In NYC, circa 1900/1910, 80% of the city jails were filled with Jewish males that many had committed crimes that included guns (aka, stick-up men). Within 60 years, the image of a Jewish male was doctor, lawyer, dentist, teacher, etc., etc. My mother's generation, born after the turn of the 20th century, decided to raise their boys with one goal in mind: do your homework, and go to college, and give the family some pride, since we are not immigrants anymore.

So, if women got the same consciousness raising they did with women's liberation, the next generation of males could be raised differently. It doesn't take laws, it takes raised consciousness amongst women, in my opinion. The media could help spread the concept. But, people can change society, without laws, I believe.

1 Reply

@Lustig Andrei,

A lot of these discussions are obfuscating side-issues and beg the real crux of the issue that contributed to the tragedy: the ease and efficiency of an individual executing a mass killing like this one.

This issue, IMHO, should not be specifically about gun control which should not be legislated. It should be about controlling war machines, such as an assault rifles and controlling better the purchase of huge capacity ammo clips.

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@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5196876)
Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5196720)
Frank Apisa wrote:

What is really sad is that many are saying that getting more guns into
circulation is part of the solution to the problem.

I 'll stand up for MORE GUNS.
Weak, feeble victims = more crime.

Yup...you would.

That was part of what I was saying, David.

There are people (like you) who are suggesting that getting more guns
into circulation is part of the solution to the problem.

WE AGREE, Frank.

Yup, we do.

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@parados,

parados wrote:

The NRA is like evangelical Christians. If you disagree either of them they claim you are attacking everyone that owns a gun or is religious. Gun owners like the religious tend to get defensive if they feel they are being attacked. We need to have a discussion that states we aren't against guns just against the nuts in the NRA.

Shouldn't the country learn whether the Second Amendment implied that a gun owner be part of a militia, since "militia" is part of the wording of the Second Amendment? Now if all gun owners were part of a militia, those that might be less than mentally healthy would more likely be identified before any possible mayhem occurred. Sort of like those that enjoy being around fire engines can join a volunteer fire department. Perhaps, a good interpretation of the rights (rights and responsibilites go together I thought)of citizens include being part of a militia, if one wants to own what militias have - guns.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5196876)

Violent predators (animals or criminals)
hate it when their prey is well armed and fights back.
(Liberals feel that way too.)

David

Could be. I am not a liberal.

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@Ragman,

Imo, the real discussion should be about how to detect the seeds of this type of sciopathy in individuals and how to prevent future occurrences of this type by identifying the potential perp before he gets in a position to have somebody in his sights. This is (or, at least, should be) about mental illness, not gun-control which is just tangential to the real issue.

3 Replies

@Foofie,

A big part of the problem is public schools:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2969267/posts

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@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

Shouldn't the country learn whether the Second Amendment implied that a gun owner be part of a militia, since "militia" is part of the wording of the Second Amendment?

What do you mean by "shouldn't the country learn"? This issue has been beaten to death in the Supreme Court. You "learn" by looking it up. Surely you know how to do that?

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@Lustig Andrei,

However, it's not realistic to expect in any reasonable timeframe the ability to detect such sociopathy with any effectiveness.

Limit their weapons to wage a small war ... to the degree where they can't efficiently kill a whole classroom or school in 2 minutes flat.

The ability to detect such a degree of sociopathy can be deterred by a parents desires to seclude and/or shield themselves and the community from this reality..as it appears this women did. Perhaps she was unaware of the degree until the bullets entered her body? In which case, no one ELSE would or could know that the sociopathy existed.

1 Reply

@Lustig Andrei,

How about the army psychiatrist who carried out the massacre at Fort Hood?

Do you think he suffered from a "mental illness"?

Quote:

This is (or, at least, should be) about mental illness, not gun-control which is just tangential to the real issue

It's the type of weapons being used that enables mass killings and woundings very rapidly--these are easily obtainable weapons of mass destruction. And the easy attainability of these weapons is definitely not tangential to the real issue, it is an important component of the real issue.

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@Ragman,

Quote:

Llimit their weapons to wage a small war ... to the degree where they can't efficiently kill a whole classroom or school in 2 minutes flat. [/quot7 e]

So it is your position that an average or above average person could not figure out means to wipe out a few classes of 7 years olds without high power firearms?

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@Lustig Andrei,

Lustig Andrei wrote:

Imo, the real discussion should be about how to detect the seeds of this type of sciopathy in individuals and how to prevent future occurrences of this type by identifying the potential perp before he gets in a position to have somebody in his sights. This is (or, at least, should be) about mental illness, not gun-control which is just tangential to the real issue.

I believe mental health professionals do not have a way to discern who has sociopathic potential (used to be called psychopathic). However, as we map the brain better, I would guess that the day will come when people will be "tested" to see if they have normal empathy for another's suffering.

In other words, whether or not there are guns in society, it takes a certain type of person to not care that innocents are being murdered. That is very different than the person that kills for vengeance, I believe. However, mental illness might then be considered a cause of such sociopathy? Meaning the field of psychology may not be as nuanced as civil authorities would prefer? Being in the 21st century may only be advanced for such things as canned soda, or packaged bread?

I wouldn't be surprised if some university somewhere is already doing research on this type of brain mapping, to discern who shows normal empathy, and who doesn't, and what is different in the two brains.

The only problem will be that there will be people, I guess, that would not want everyone tested, to see who may be empathetically challenged.

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@firefly,

Quote:

Do you think he suffered from a "mental illness"?

Yes as deep religions believes of any kind is a form of mental illness.

True most to the time such illness is harmless but not in the case of Jones Town or the 911 idiots and so on.

1 Reply

@firefly,

Tomohiro Kato killed 4 and severely injured 8 with a knife and a car in Tokyo, Japan on June 8, 2008.

On March 12, 2010, Zheng Minsheng killed 8 children with a knife at a elementary school in Nanping, China.

On May 12, 2010, Wu Huanming killed 7 children and 2 adults with a cleaver at a kindergarten in Hanzhong, China.

In August 2010, Fang Jiantang killed killed 3 children and 1 teacher at a kindergarten in Zibo, Shandong province in China.

No guns involved, but around 20 deaths in one year in schools in China. Explain.

Lustig has a point, but there is no way to detect sociopaths and prevent tragedies caused by them from happening, as they blend well in society.

2 Replies

@BillRM,

Needing a military-style assault rifle to go "varmint-hunting" could be considered "mental illness", compulsive collecting of dozens of guns could be considered "mental illness", feeling too paranoid to leave one's house without carrying a concealed weapon could be considered "mental illness".

There's a reason for the term "gun nut".

3 Replies

@Val Killmore,

But the death tolls are much higher for our mass murders committed with guns.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/12/14/nyregion/The-shooting-at-the-Sandy-Hook-Elementary.html#shootings

1 Reply

@firefly,

firefly wrote:

Needing a military-style assault rifle to go "varmint-hunting" could be considered "mental illness", compulsive collecting of dozens of guns could be considered "mental illness", feeling too paranoid to leave one's house without carrying a concealed weapon could be considered "mental illness".

Once upon a time, getting a divorce and splitting up a family was not considered correct social mores. It would have put a damper on many a politician.

1 Reply

@firefly,

Quote:

It's the type of weapons being used that enables mass killings and woundings very rapidly

I find is amazing that some people such as Firefly think that killing large numbers of defenseless 7 years all in small rooms can not be done without high power firearms.

Let see a few simple Molotov cocktails would likely be enough, less alone more deadly home make devices within the skill level of the average person.

1 Reply

Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

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