64
   

Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2012 09:22 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5211951)
Frank Apisa wrote:
"They" do...just about everyone you interact with does. I do.


Liar.



Frank Apisa wrote:
You just refuse to acknowledge it


It is not in my habit to accept lies.

You see, unlike you, I actually have integrity.



Frank Apisa wrote:
...and instead lie more by claiming you never lie.


Falsely accusing me of your own dishonesty does not change the fact that you are the one who is lying.


See what I mean?
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2012 09:27 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
Surely, you aren't stupid enough to try to claim that the easy availability of guns doesn't conrtibute to the crime rate--or are you that stupid?


Just because people point out facts that you find inconvenient doesn't make them stupid.
0 Replies
 
raprap
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2012 09:27 am
@Val Killmore,
Granted it is a little difficult to immediately identify the visual differences between a military assault rifle and a legally obtained civilian model.

But generally a military model would have a muzzle brake as on the top model and a civilian one wouldn't. However, a 'cosmetic' muzzle brake is available so the visual identification of an assault rifle from afar (more than, say, five feet) could be in error.

Perhaps a solution akin to the one used on 'toy' firearms (the safety orange barrel tab)--a non removable colored tab on the barrel--say white, to identify a legal wanna be assault rifle.

Rap
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2012 09:28 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
See what I mean?


I see that you are dishonest and have no integrity.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2012 09:31 am
@firefly,
Once more violence crimes with or without a gun is a small percents of the prison population and there is zero reason to assume that the prisons have any great numbers of people in it for just waving a gun around.

An armed robbery as in using a gun to threaten someone to rob him or her would be under the violence crime classification so once more you are blowing smoke.

Shame on you thinking you can get away with such nonsense.
Frank Apisa
 
  4  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2012 09:38 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5211991)
Frank Apisa wrote:
See what I mean?



I see that you are dishonest and have no integrity.


Listening to you charge people with being "dishonest" and "lacking integrity"...is like listening to Rush Limbaugh claiming someone else is a fat, big mouth.

But I love ya anyway, Oralloy. You are fast becoming one of the best sources of unintended humor in A2K. I thank you for the laughs.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2012 09:50 am
@Frank Apisa,

*PLONK*
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2012 09:53 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5212007)

*PLONK*


KERPLONK!
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2012 10:33 am
@Val Killmore,
Quote:
The NRA does not speak for everyone who owns a firearm.

And I've pointed that out repeatedly. The NRA doesn't even speak for many of its members who do want more sensible gun control measures.

Quote:
I think you'll find that nearly all gun owners or rushing to get guns under the threat of a ban, are merely advocating choice, and not more guns as the solution.

I'm not quite sure why all those people are rushing out to snap up assault weapons and high capacity ammunition clips, and neither are you. Some of them do see more guns as the solution. Some of them do fear that the government will ban them and they do want to stockpile them--so they can use them against the government if need be. And that's clear if you read the comments on some of the pro-gun Web sites. They also are discussing whether they can put their weapons in trusts, so the government can't confiscate them and their children can inherit them. Others might be buying them so they can re-sell them--at a profit, if the supply dries up. Others might be buying them for someone else--acting as straw purchasers. Others might own one and just want another, or want the high capacity clips, for future use. There might be all sorts of reasons, but this sudden run on these guns and ammo is being motivated by fears about new gun controls. And not all who are making these purchases might be responsible, or stable, or law-abiding, either now, or in the future--and that's what creates a problem.
Quote:
Also, Adam Lanza did not use an "assault weapon,"...

Yes, he did--but, as oralloy incessantly points out, it lacked certain "cosmetic features" so it avoided being labeled as such.

I think that any new assault weapons ban will re-define the term "assault weapon" so that it focuses on the semi-automatic capacity of the gun and not just on "cosmetic features".

Quote:
I am just merely advocating that people have a choice to protect themselves, and not have to depend on others for it.


Who is saying that people don't have a choice in how to protect themselves? There are many ways of protecting yourself--including avoiding dangerous conditions and situations. There are ways of protecting yourself that don't involve the use of any weapons. There are ways of protecting yourself with weapons other than guns. There are ways of protecting yourself with a gun that don't include assault rifles with 100 capacity clips.

People already have choices--plenty of choices--when it comes to self-defense--but the issue is whether some of those choices should be limited if they endanger the general welfare or the public health and safety. And that's what a good part of the legislative gun control debate is going to focus on.

While the NRA certainly does not speak for everyone who owns a firearm, and it might not speak for you, it certainly seems to speak for oralloy and BillRM, both of whom regurgitate the NRA party line, talking points, and propaganda, incessantly, with no recognition, at all, of why some common sense gun control measures should be instituted to try to deal with our problem of gun violence--and the shocking number of mass murders, by firearms, that have occurred just this year. Responsible gun owners, who do not agree with the NRA's positions, are speaking out--including those who are members of Congress, or who hold other elected offices.

It is about choice, and moving to enact better gun controls and regulations is also a choice. It's a choice that should seek to find a balance between allowing personal possession of firearms and having enough regulation over that to protect the general welfare and the public health and safety as much as possible.

Consider how we regulate even the use of Mace/pepper spray--which are defensive weapons. While legal in all 50 states, there are state and local restrictions in place. For instance--
Wisconsin - 10% Pepper spray without UV dye is allowed.
Michigan - 2% Pepper spray allowed. Can be combined with tear gas formulation.
New York - Defense sprays only available through licensed firearm dealer or pharmacist.
Massachusetts - Possessor must have a Firearms Identification Card (FID).

You cannot carry pepper spray aboard a commercial airliner--it is a federal crime.

You might have problems carrying pepper spray into some secured buildings, like federal or state buildings, or through security checkpoints, even where specific laws are not in effect.

Stun guns or tasers cannot be sold to those under 18, and I don't think they can be sold, used, or owned, in New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Wisconsin, Michigan, Hawaii, or Rhode Island.

So firearms are not the only class of defensive weapons subject to regulation.



firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2012 10:38 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Oralloy. You are fast becoming one of the best sources of unintended humor in A2K. I thank you for the laughs.


How true. The entertainment value, and unintended humor, in oralloy's posts is wonderful. I also appreciate the laughs.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2012 10:45 am
@firefly,
You missed the crucial quote, FF.

Quote:
Listening to you charge people with being "dishonest" and "lacking integrity"...is like listening to Rush Limbaugh claiming someone else is a fat, big mouth.


While Frank was right about Oralloy, this is a monumental Freudian slip on Frank's part. Not to mention hypocrisy of the first order.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2012 10:54 am
@JTT,
Quote:
Quote:
Re: firefly (Post 5212067)
You missed the crucial quote, FF.

Quote:
Listening to you charge people with being "dishonest" and "lacking integrity"...is like listening to Rush Limbaugh claiming someone else is a fat, big mouth.


While Frank was right about Oralloy, this is a monumental Freudian slip on Frank's part. Not to mention hypocrisy of the first order.


If you say so, JTT. I'm not sure what in hell you are saying here, so I really cannot agree or disagree.
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2012 10:58 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
If you say so, JTT. I'm not sure what in hell you are saying here, so I really cannot agree or disagree.


See what I mean, FF. Frank is fundamentally dishonest. He'll use any trick to avoid having to face the truth.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2012 11:02 am
@JTT,
Firefly...if you are still following this, could you please explain to me what JTT is trying to babble. I honestly do not understand him/her.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2012 11:04 am
@Frank Apisa,
You've caught yourself out, Frank. Care for a straw?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2012 11:11 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Firefly...if you are still following this, could you please explain to me what JTT is trying to babble. I honestly do not understand him/her.


If you talk nicely to JTT I think you might get the same in return. I have seen JTT come across as being very informative before. 2 Cents
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2012 11:12 am
@reasoning logic,
Would you please read what he has written...and explain it to me.

Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2012 11:13 am
@JTT,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5212092)
You've caught yourself out, Frank. Care for a straw?


Obviously you cannot explain your "Freudian slip" comment...nor the "hypocrisy" one...so you are going to play this little game.

Hey...okay, I up for it.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2012 11:15 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Once more violence crimes with or without a gun is a small percents of the prison population

Quote:
Nonviolent offenders are 60% of our prison population
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/03/opinion/bloom-prison-spending/index.html

That indicates that 40% of the prison population are violent offenders.

And, face it, the main reason you've given for why you carry a gun, and why you need to protect yourself, and your home with a gun, is because you fear the person threatening you, or your home, might also be carrying a gun. So, it's rather illogical of you to claim that the availability of guns in this country isn't contributing to crimes--it's because guns do contribute to crimes that you feel the need to be similarly armed, in order to defend yourself from being the crime victim of someone carrying a gun.

reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2012 11:18 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Would you please read what he has written...and explain it to me.


My head cant handle it today Frank but honestly I do think if you really try, he will explain anything you ask "unless he thinks you are making a joke of it.
 

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