Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

@firefly,

That's not what she's being told, apparently.

Quote:

When I asked my son’s social worker about my options, he said that the only thing I could do was to get Michael charged with a crime. “If he’s back in the system, they’ll create a paper trail,” he said. “That’s the only way you’re ever going to get anything done. No one will pay attention to you unless you’ve got charges.”

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@Frank Apisa,

bump

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@firefly,

firefly wrote:

The NRA won't budge, but they also don't reflect the views of many gun owners who do want to sensibly address the problem we have with gun violence.

The NRA is like evangelical Christians. If you disagree either of them they claim you are attacking everyone that owns a gun or is religious. Gun owners like the religious tend to get defensive if they feel they are being attacked. We need to have a discussion that states we aren't against guns just against the nuts in the NRA.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

You know I find it sad that the anti-gun nuts are using the deaths of 20 children to promote their programs so shamefully.

I find it sad that the 'gun nuts' refuse to acknowledge that the loose controls on guns is part of the problem. You are right, it would be no different than if they died in a school bus accident. Say at a railroad crossing. And we decided to put up barriers at crossings, or make the drivers stop at each one to make sure there was no train. Your arguments are like those drivers complaining that it would take too much time to stop. It is sad that a large group of people refuse to believe that maybe the availability of guns is part of the problem.

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@IRFRANK,

What is really sad is that many are saying that getting more guns into circulation is part of the solution to the problem.

We are not going to make a serious dent in the problem of violence of this kind by laws...but we certainly are not going to help things by getting more guns in the hands of more people.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

How dare this mother in the story allow a dangerous to her other children to be in her house and I do not care what she need to do to end this matter at once.

So what is she to do? Lock him in a shed out back, then go to jail herself? Perhaps stab him? I don't understand that you expect. She is crying out for help. You don't understand how difficult it is to deal with a situation like this. I had mental health problems with my mother years ago. I can tell you first hand that there is very little support out there. It is a difficult situation and sometimes there are no answers.
We closed the mental health facilities because there was no money to be made there. Yes, drugs have gotten better, but they are not in themselves the answer. Your logic on this is simplistic and naive.

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@firefly,

Quote:

There are residential treatment facilities available for emotionally disturbed children or those with severe behavioral problems.

And who is going to pay for that?

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@IRFRANK,

Quote:

large group of people refuse to believe that maybe the availability of guns is part of the problem.

No the situation is that we do not think that any law is going to keep guns out of the hands of anyone with a few dollars and the willingness to break those laws.

All the laws are going to be a pain in the read end to the law abiding people.

Now with all the laws and all the manpower and all the people we had but in prison for long terms and the tens of billions dollars spend every year on the war on drug is it your position that anyone willing to break those laws will have any problem buying those street drugs?

With 200 hundred millions plus guns in this country do you claims that guns will not be sold to anyone with the money to buy them?

Footnote roughly half of my collections of firearms was not purchase by way of a gun shops but in private dealings and I would assume that is fairly normal for gun owners as you do not need a federal license to sell a gun or two only if you go into business .

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@JPB,

Boston has one extreme right-wing daily newspaper, the Boston Herald.

Their take on the shooting, from the front-page headline in the Sunday Herald:

"GUN-OBSESSED MOTHER TEACHES MURDERER SON TO KILL"

Every one of these shootings is on the heads of the NRA, and OmSigDavid, and Oralloy, and BillRM, and the other gun nuts.

According to the news, Adam Lanza's mom collected guns, she took him and his brother to shooting ranges to shoot. He knew where her guns were, like most kids do, despite efforts their parents take to hide them. He took the guns, killed her, and went on to kill 27 more innocents. The court-misinterpreted "right" to keep and bear arms for self-defense sure didn't do her much good, did it, not to mention the 27 other people murdered for that alleged "right".

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

What is really sad is that many are saying that getting more guns into circulation is part of the solution to the problem.

The problem is such laws will tend to disarm the law abiding citizens and not interfere with those who do not care about the laws.

1 Reply

@IRFRANK,

Since the world is full of obsessive gun worshippers who own politicians, I think that we are going to have to invest in really good security measures for public buildings and cxhurches to protect our citizens.
Arming EVERYONE is totaly stupid , but arming some deputies who have other duties in the public buildings may serve a purpose , sorta like all the cops in a courthouse. Have we had any gunnings in a courthouse in the last 25 years?
Security is gonna have to be a budgetary line item. Most of the security guys I see at our local high schools are retired night watchmen or "rent a cops" who have no means to fight back other than swearing.
They dont even arm mall cops around here.

I see that many police depts have gone to "active intervention training" for situations like these but having deputies on sight may b preferrable.

I dont know, this is fodder for discussion . Until we ultimately wise up and seriously handle this in an apolitical fashion we will be potential victims

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@IRFRANK,

So many questions I have about how this tragedy became possible. These are not 100% thought out...but I think they are legitimate questions:

For starters, perhaps she shouldn't have allowed the 3 guns he had (inclusive of an assault rifle) plus 3 others in their house. With her knowing his emotional and disability issues, maybe she, apparently ...shouldn't she have prevented his access? OK, yes, she may not have been able to stop him (duplicate or stolen key to the locked case).

I think she like many parents with such a troubled child, may not have had the complete awareness thar she had a ticking time bomb? Maybe nothing could have been done utlimately.... but...doesn't her awareness of all the guns ... and his activities (and hers) raise lots of DARK questions?

Or she shouldn't have had them at all on premises, knowing his unstable emotional state? According to CNN, he was turned down from purchasing yet another gun the previous week at a sporting goods store.

This gun 'lust' (intentional exaggeration) seems by the current news reports to be either encouraged or condoned at some level. Granted I don't take this news as gospel truth. I am watching this part of it as it seems to indicate a behavior by his mother -- an awareness on her part or somehow encouraging his gun activity?

Why have an assault rifle at all? Alternately, how could he have tricked the system if she didn't know he bought it (forgery?) and or the multiple other arms and ammo?

1 Reply

@IRFRANK,

If she have to go to jail to protect the lives of her other children yes that what the hell she should do!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In any case, as long as she had her one son in the house she should get her other children out of the house if that mean handling them over to a family relation or friend or surrendering them to the state or whatever need to be done should be done.

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@MontereyJack,

Quote:

According to the news, Adam Lanza's mom collected guns, she took him and his brother to shooting ranges to shoot. He knew where her guns were, like most kids do, despite efforts their parents take to hide them. He took the guns, killed her, and went on to kill 27 more innocents. The court-misinterpreted "right" to keep and bear arms for self-defense sure didn't do her much good, did it, not to mention the 27 other people murdered for that alleged "right".

Let see she collect a few guns and went shooting with her sons just like my father and mother both did with me as a teenager and tens of millions of families all over this countries happen to do.

Second unless she had some indication that he was not a stable sane person why the hell should she not allow him access to the guns in the house he was 20 years old adult after all.

Would she had been at fault if he had killed her with a knife for not locking up all the knives in the household from her 20 years old son?

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@parados,

parados wrote:

The NRA is like evangelical Christians. If you disagree either of them they claim you are attacking everyone that owns a gun or is religious.

I take it that "disagree" is an euphemism for "outrageous proposals to violate our Constitutional rights"??

1 Reply

@IRFRANK,

IRFRANK wrote:

BillRM wrote:
You know I find it sad that the anti-gun nuts are using the deaths of 20 children to promote their programs so shamefully.

I find it sad that the 'gun nuts' refuse to acknowledge that the loose controls on guns is part of the problem.

Why should people acknowledge something that isn't true?

IRFRANK wrote:

It is sad that a large group of people refuse to believe that maybe the availability of guns is part of the problem.

What is sad about it? Why shouldn't people refuse to believe a falsehood?

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@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

Quote:
the "culture" of boys

I don't see a "reply to all" button. This post isn't really directed at Foofie but her comment is the one that stuck most in my head.

I'm no gun nut and I have no problems with regulating guns (eliminate internet selling of ammunition?, only being able to buy it within your zip code?, other things?) but I am really disturbed when incidents like this school shooting and the recent shooting at a mall near my house, lead to calls for gun control.

Calling for gun control means we're happy to put a band aid on the problem without addressing the reasons that some young men are so angry that they do things like this.

Dressing our schools up like prisons and zero tolerance policies aren't addressing the real problem. Neither are gun controls. They might make some people (not me) feel safer but they don't address the real issue.

And I don't think it's just a mental health issue, it's an emotional health issue.

I'm all for America having a real debate about guns and gun control but I worry that the true problem, "boy culture" as Foofie put it, will go unexamined if me make this all about gun control.

1. Calls for gun control r calls to more thoroughly disarm future victims of violence.

2. I thawt Foofie was male ??

David

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

What is really sad is that many are saying that getting more guns into circulation is part of the solution to the problem.

We are not going to make a serious dent in the problem of violence of this kind by laws...but we certainly are not going to help things by getting more guns in the hands of more people.

Americans have the right to carry guns when they go about in public. You have no choice but to allow it.

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@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

Every one of these shootings is on the heads of the NRA, and OmSigDavid, and Oralloy, and BillRM, and the other gun nuts.

You're being silly. The fact that we actually care about the Constitution and civil rights does not make us responsible for other people's actions.

MontereyJack wrote:

The court-misinterpreted "right" to keep and bear arms for self-defense sure didn't do her much good, did it, not to mention the 27 other people murdered for that alleged "right".

There is no misinterpretation. The courts are just enforcing the Constitution as they are supposed to.

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@IRFRANK,

IRFRANK wrote:

Quote:
You know I find it sad that the anti-gun nuts are using the deaths of 20 children to promote their programs so shamefully.

I find it sad that the 'gun nuts' refuse to acknowledge that the loose controls on guns is part of the problem.

Gun control laws discourage effective resistance to violence.
Thay are O.S.H.A., protecting criminals on-the-job
from the defenses of their victims.

David

0 Replies

Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

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