Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

@BillRM,

Quote:

Are those people any less dead by not being killed by firearms?

We're not discussing all ways that people can die or be killed, dumb-dumb. We're discussing gun violence--the needless, senseless deaths caused by guns every day in this country.

2 Replies

@firefly,

Quote:

One aspect of "attack prevention" is to limit, and better control, the types of weapons currently being used in mass attacks.

LOL and once more how are you planning on keeping any firearms out of anyone hands that do not care about the laws such as mass killers?

An when you give us your plan let see if we could apply it to illegal drugs also.

1 Reply

@firefly,

Quote:

We're not discussing all ways that people can die or be killed, dumb-dumb. We're discussing gun violence--the needless, senseless deaths caused by guns every day in this country.

So you would be happy and think you had achieved your goals by moving more of mass killings away from firearms??

Those children families in Newtown would feel better if the children had been blown up or burn to death or............

Hell would you yourself feel better if those kids had been burn to death?

0 Replies

@firefly,

You missed the part of " If something needs changed in regards to firearms, make laws that cannot be dismissed during prosecution when a firearm is used to commit a crime. Stronger Laws against law abiding citizens who become criminals. Criminals commit crimes, not guns. "
For ex:
1) Use or be in possession of a gun while committing a crime: 60 years in prison w/o possibility of parole
2) Fire a gun at another human being without justified reason: life in prison w/o possibility of parole
3) Your gun is not secured properly or accounted for and somebody else uses it in a crime: 25 years in prison w/o possibility of parole.
It will eliminate the violence in our city neighborhoods, making kids safer from gun violence, which are largely caused by gang and illegal drug related incidences. It will change the culture of gun violence - it might take a generation, but it will change it.

Violent deaths of children is tragic and sad. All children deserve our best to protect them, however, death is death by any other means as well. Poverty and environmental factors are the number one cause of death globally of children, all who should have the same right to life, liberty and happiness as our children here in the United States.

2 Replies

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

how are you planning on keeping any firearms out of anyone hands that do not care about the laws such as mass killers?

Do you have any suggestions as to how firearms can be kept out of the hands of those who don't care about American laws?

Forget about arming other people - the research shows that just leads to more deaths.

~~~

How can firearms be kept out of the hands of those who don't care about American laws?

Or are you like Oralloy and prefer dead children to any form of gun control?

LOL

2 Replies

@ehBeth,

Quote:

Or are you like Oralloy and prefer dead children to any form of gun control?

If guns and gunpower had never been invented means of the mass killing of children would be well within the average intellects of your average mass killers.

So I do not care how a child is killed just that he or she was killed when under the protection of society in a public school for example and gun laws are no going to stop anyone with the desire to kill defenseless children from doing so.

Security have a chance of protecting children meanless gun laws does not.

2 Replies

@Val Killmore,

Quote:

Guns do not commit crimes, or by its own will kill people, it is a tool.

Damn right it is a tool--a killing tool--it enables killing. If a gun wasn't a killing tool it would be useless for self defense.

And we freely allow the acquisition and possession of such killing tools, including those tools which can swiftly enable mass murder, by any lunatic, drunk, hot-head, and would-be terrorist and criminal.

I repeat...

We don't need suicide bombers in this country--our terrorists can just walk into a gun store, or gun show, or place an internet order, and get all the high power firearms and ammunition they need to shoot up classrooms, movie theaters, commuter trains, houses of worship, shopping malls, supermarkets, military bases, and firemen trying to put out a blaze.

Just as we now keep potential weapons off our planes, to better protect the planes, we need to better control and regulate the weapons we allow in general circulation in order to better protect the entire population. Considerably more people die as a result of gun violence in this country than have died as a result of bombs on planes, or than died on 9/11 as the result of plane hijackings.

2 Replies

@BillRM,

so dead children is your choice

<nods>

I suspected you'd go that way.

1 Reply

@firefly,

So you would be happy if the same numbers of people are killed yearly just by others means then firearms correct Firefly?

0 Replies

@ehBeth,

Quote:

so dead children is your choice

??????? LOL

Once more if the killer in Newtown had gone into the school with a Japanese sword or bottles of gasoline or home make bombs those children would be less dead?????????

1 Reply

@Val Killmore,

Quote:

2) Fire a gun at another human being without justified reason: life in prison w/o possibility of parole

Well, that's what the son of the NRA president did--he fired his gun through the window of another moving car in an incident of road rage.

He only got ten years. Why don't you write to the prez of the NRA and tell him that sonny boy really should be in prison for life w/o the possibility of parole. Think the NRA would support that?

Do you really think the NRA would support any of your ideas?

How about tracing gun ownership. People easily acquire guns legally and then sell them, or give them, to others who might not be able to get them even with our lax standards, or they never report guns that were stolen. We need to know who were the original purchasers of the weapon--and we need to track ownership--we need a national data base.

We also need stiff criminal penalties for all gun dealers and sellers who cannot account for, and do not immediately report, all weapons missing from their inventory.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Once more if the killer in Newtown had gone into the school with a Japanese sword or bottles of gasoline or home make bombs those children would be less dead?

Seems that a Japanese sword or bottles of gasoline or home make bombs aren't to get so easily ....

1 Reply

@firefly,

firefly wrote:

Damn right it is a tool--a killing tool--it enables killing. If a gun wasn't a killing tool it would be useless for self defense.

And we freely allow the acquisition and possession of such killing tools, including those tools which can swiftly enable mass murder, by any lunatic, drunk, hot-head, and would-be terrorist and criminal.

Ya, you keep up with that eloquent, smooth as honey propaganda, and you can become a politician in a jiffy.
Let me go over the basics of Gun 101. Being a 'killing tool' isn't the main purpose of guns. The purpose of guns is to shoot. We as humans decide where that bullet goes.
Want to get to the root of the problem, start with the human.

Now for some good ol razz, since we are on the topic of 'purpose.'
Whats the main purpose of a pizza? To make you fat..this kills kids..ban pizza? What about sports cars? their main purpose is for pure unbridled speed that surpasses speed limits easily...which is illegal, ban sports cars? Alcohol..its main purpose is to get drunk..which is illegal in public and illegal to drink and drive...ban Alcohol?

Quote:

I repeat...

We don't need suicide bombers in this country--our terrorists can just walk into a gun store, or gun show, or place an internet order, and get all the high power firearms and ammunition they need to shoot up classrooms, movie theaters, commuter trains, houses of worship, shopping malls, supermarkets, military bases, and firemen trying to put out a blaze.

I repeat...

firefly, must I explain to you that all terrorists are criminals but not all criminals are terrorists? And what does suicide bombers have to do with walking "into a gun store, or gun show, or place an internet order, and get all the high power firearms and ammunition they need to shoot up classrooms, movie theaters, commuter trains, houses of worship, shopping malls, supermarkets, military bases, and firemen trying to put out a blaze."

Why do you think the bad guy is an inanimate object? Are you that paranoid? Guns do not commit crimes, or by its own will kill people, it is a tool. It is generally common sense that law abiding citizens who become criminals can easily get guns or use other crude weapons to commit crimes. If something needs changed in regards to firearms, make laws that cannot be dismissed during prosecution when a firearm is used to commit a crime. Stronger Laws against law abiding citizens who become criminals. Criminals commit crimes, not guns.

For ex:
1) Use or be in possession of a gun while committing a crime: 60 years in prison w/o possibility of parole
2) Fire a gun at another human being without justified reason: life in prison w/o possibility of parole
3) Your gun is not secured properly or accounted for and somebody else uses it in a crime: 25 years in prison w/o possibility of parole.
It will eliminate the violence in our city neighborhoods, making kids safer from gun violence, which are largely caused by gang and illegal drug related incidences. It will change the culture of gun violence - it might take a generation, but it will change it.

Violent deaths of children is tragic and sad. All children deserve our best to protect them, however, death is death by any other means as well. Poverty and environmental factors are the number one cause of death globally of children, all who should have the same right to life, liberty and happiness as our children here in the United States.

Quote:

Just as we now keep potential weapons off our planes, to better protect the planes, we need to better control and regulate the weapons we allow in general circulation in order to better protect the entire population. Considerably more people die as a result of gun violence in this country than have died as a result of bombs on planes, or than died on 9/11 as the result of plane hijackings.

It is true, guns generally increase the damage inflicted by a murderer. However, Adam Lanza's access to that rifle and his actions with it were already illegal under several statutes. Those laws did not help.
By the way, you may remember a few years ago a woman did indeed kill her own five children by drowning them in a bath tub. And that is far from the only case. My point being, the level and the method of carnage is "sensational" and makes it news. However, your analogy, relates no way, realistically, to a nation. Furthermore, by such analogy you stand for disarming America, which is not going to happen.

0 Replies

@firefly,

You made the first mistake in thinking that I stand behind ALL the things NRA stands for.

firefly wrote:

How about tracing gun ownership. People easily acquire guns legally and then sell them, or give them, to others who might not be able to get them even with our lax standards, or they never report guns that were stolen. We need to know who were the original purchasers of the weapon--and we need to track ownership--we need a national data base.

We also need stiff criminal penalties for all gun dealers and sellers who cannot account for, and do not immediately report, all weapons missing from their inventory.

I'm ok with that.

0 Replies

@Val Killmore,

Val Killmore wrote:

You missed the part of " If something needs changed in regards to firearms, make laws that cannot be dismissed during prosecution when a firearm is used to commit a crime. Stronger Laws against law abiding citizens who become criminals. Criminals commit crimes, not guns. "

Good lord, you're an idiot. These people are not trying to rob a bank; they're trying to be infamous.

Tougher penalties aren't going to deter them, because they just don't care.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

Security have a chance of protecting children meanless gun laws does not.

Gun control is an enhanced security measure.

And you are right--we need much stiffer gun laws, as well as better enforcement of the ones we have. "Meaningless gun laws" are pointless--we need laws that better enhance the security of the general population by better regulating and controlling these easily used tools of death. We don't allow the sale of cigarettes or alcohol to minors, but you're quite willing to easily put lethal weapons into the hands of just about anyone, with almost no control or regulation.

Quote:

gun laws are no going to stop anyone with the desire to kill defenseless children from doing so...

It might stop them from doing it with an easily available gun...And that's the point. Gun control is definitely more preferable than having more dead children with bullet holes in their bodies--and most of the children who currently die from gunfire are shot at home and on the street, and not in schools.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

Seems that a Japanese sword or bottles of gasoline or home make bombs aren't to get so easily ....

????????????????/

Bottles and gasoline is hard to get????????????????????

Home made bombs are hard to make given the detail instructions on the internet in how to turn every day household items into bombs?

In the US Japanese swords can be order off the internet.........see

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-19369592836979_2243_252098532

http://www.handmadesword.com/samurai-katana.html?gclid=CMXY8eT5urQCFQiqnQodGR4ATw

1 Reply

@BillRM,

If Japanese swords were the currently preferred tools of mass murderers--as semi-automatic weapons are now--would you favor better controlling and regulating their acquisition?

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

Random mass shootings by "them" will not entirely be deterred by these strict laws, drewdad. However, it may indirectly act as an obstruction psychologically and cause the person or an aid to the person to think twice before committing or helping someone to go through with the senseless killings.

You're the idiot for reading it out of context. The context being, firefly making a comment how most of the children die by violence in the streets and homes outside of school.

firefly wrote:

More children are already killed by guns in the home, and on the street, than they are in schools.

0 Replies

@firefly,

Quote:

Security have a chance of protecting children "meaningless gun laws" does not.

That is either a call for meaningful gun laws, ff, or conclusive proof that you're debating with a complete idiot.

1 Reply

Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know