64
   

Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

 
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Wed 26 Dec, 2012 03:55 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:
gun enthusiasts, that like semi-automatic weapons as part of their personal collection, were never in the military. In other words, for some, do guns compensate for a life of civilian ease (never having a sergeant shouting at them, while at attention, or some other basic training stressful situation)?


So a wheel gun is not connected to the military but a semi auto happen to be even a hunting gun and make some kind of statement concerning dream of military glory by the owner?

Well I am guilty in owning the most famous military handgun in the world the 1911 model A 45.

No rifle of any kind however just handguns and shotguns.

My pride and joy is however a wheel gun, a S&W 357 with zero history connection with military arms that I am aware of.

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Wed 26 Dec, 2012 03:59 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Most gun violence, and senseless gun deaths, are caused by allegedly "law-abiding" citizens--


Link to numbers Firefly as I would bet a large amount of dollars that arm robbery is the leading cause of gun crimes and deaths by people with long histories of crimes.

Next would be gangs with special note to gangs involved in the drug trade.
Foofie
 
  1  
Wed 26 Dec, 2012 03:59 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:



Wow! You really reach back for a nugget didn't you!

I'd pat you on the head if you were still in the room.

Did anyone see you scratching his walnuts?




Let's not have repartee. It is a serious subject, and I would wonder what the scenario might be that citizens need a semi-automatic weapon, as part of a gun "collection"?

In my opinion, having a semi-automatic weapon, as part of one's gun collection, might be akin to "gun gluttony." Literally. one of the seven deadly sins.

Remember, no repartee. We have lived different lives, in different regions, and you could just say that in your neck-of-the- woods, guns are as popular as waffles. However, claiming that guns should be everyone's right may just be wrong, since there are urban areas that would be worse off with lax gun laws, in my opinion.

BillRM
 
  -1  
Wed 26 Dec, 2012 04:01 pm
@mark noble,
Quote:
we sent our nutcases out west a few centuries ago:)


Do not forget south as in down under and we had a history of sending our disloyal citizens North to Canada.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Wed 26 Dec, 2012 04:09 pm
@BillRM,
So must for gun regulation of gun shops and even gun show is going to be helpful.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Firearmsources.svg/250px-Firearmsources.svg.png
0 Replies
 
Below viewing threshold (view)
spendius
 
  3  
Wed 26 Dec, 2012 04:29 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
If you can't see the national sickness in all of this, you really have your head in the sand.


Deeply buried too ff. The incident is being sanitised.

On the information I have seen put out by the police the children were executed one by one with multiple shots over a 12 minute period. That not one escaped points to that. In other mass killings there were injuries.

The kids might have been confused when the first execution took place but by the time the third or fourth were executed the rest were waiting their turn.

That makes this mass killing unlike the others being referred to. Not just in degree but in kind.

I wrote a post the other day about the calculus of the sum total of pleasure from all the trigger squeezing in the USA set against the sum total of all the pain from all the trigger squeezing. Our gun lovers allowed it to pass by their attention. Wimped out.

On the pan on the pain side of the scales is that of the 20th kid to be executed about 10 minutes after the first one. Also the 19th. The 18th. And so on. Plus the pain of the families wondering where their own kid came in the sequence. On top of the pain of losing them as if that isn't enough.

I think that anybody who doesn't think that the pain of the 20th kid to be executed far outweighs the sum of the tiny increments of pleasure of all the trigger squeezing in all of the USA has a hard heart. One of stone.

I hope the cops don't produce an order of execution because as things stand it is a slight consolation to the families bereaved to imagine that their own kid was first and didn't know what was happening.

Carry on sanitising you tough guys.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  4  
Wed 26 Dec, 2012 04:48 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Link to numbers Firefly as I would bet a large amount of dollars that arm robbery is the leading cause of gun crimes and deaths by people with long histories of crimes.

I wasn't just discussing "gun crimes"--or crimes, like armed robbery, which involved the use of guns in their commission. You're trying to limit gun violence to only those sorts of crimes when that is hardly the case.

What I actually said was:
Most gun violence, and senseless gun deaths, are caused by allegedly "law-abiding" citizens--until the moment they weren't any longer "law-abiding" or until the moment their aggressive impulses flare and a gun is handy, or until the moment they leave their gun where their young child can get it and use it.

Armed robbery certainly isn't the leading cause of gun deaths of children in this country--children who are the victims of gun violence, children whose lives are ended by gun shots.

And, since you want a link to support that, I'll re-post this article, I previously posted, to help you understand that.

Quote:
Connecticut shooting puts spotlight on daily deaths of young children by gunfire in the U.S.
By Associated Press
December 25, 2012

Before 20 first-graders were massacred at school by a gunman in Newtown, Conn., first-grader Luke Schuster, 6, was shot to death in New Town, N.D.

Six-year-olds John Devine Jr. and Jayden Thompson were similarly killed in Kentucky and Texas.

Veronica Moser-Sullivan, 6, died in a mass shooting at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo., while 6-year-old Kammia Perry was slain by her father outside her Cleveland home, according to an Associated Press review of 2012 media reports.

Yet there was no gunman on the loose when Julio Segura-McIntosh died in Tacoma, Wash. The 3-year-old accidentally shot himself in the head while playing with a gun he found inside a car.

As he mourned with the families of Newtown, President Barack Obama said the nation cannot accept such violent deaths of children as routine. But hundreds of young child deaths by gunfire — whether intentional or accidental — suggest it might already have.

Between 2006 and 2010, 561 children age 12 and under were killed by firearms, according to the FBI’s most recent Uniform Crime Reports. The numbers each year are consistent: 120 in 2006; 115 in 2007; 116 in 2008, 114 in 2009 and 96 in 2010. The FBI’s count does not include gun-related child deaths that authorities have ruled accidental.

“This happens on way too regular a basis and it affects families and communities — not at once, so we don’t see it and we don’t understand it as part of our national experience,” said Daniel Webster, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research.

The true number of small children who died by gunfire in 2012 won’t be known for a couple of years, when official reports are collected and dumped into a database and analyzed. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention expects to release its 2011 count in the spring.

In response to what happened in Newtown, the National Rifle Association, the nation’s largest gun lobby, suggested shielding children from gun violence by putting an armed police officer in every school by the time classes resume in January.

“Politicians pass laws for gun-free school zones ... They post signs advertising them and in doing so they tell every insane killer in America that schools are the safest place to inflict maximum mayhem with minimum risk,” said NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre.

Webster said children are more likely to die by gunfire at home or in the street. They tend to be safer when they are in school, he said.

None of the 61 deaths reviewed by The Associated Press happened at school.

Children die by many other methods as well: violent stabbings or throat slashings, drowning, beating and strangulation. But the gruesome recounts of gun deaths, sometimes just a few paragraphs in a newspaper or on a website, a few minutes on television or radio, bear witness that firearms too, are cutting short many youngsters’ lives.

One week before the Newtown slayings, Alyssa Celaya, 8, bled to death after being shot by her father with a .38-caliber gun at the Tule River Indian Reservation in California. Her grandmother and two brothers also were killed, a younger sister and brother were shot and wounded. The father shot and killed himself amid a hail of gunfire from officers.

Delric Miller’s life ended at 9 months and Angel Mauro Cortez Nava’s at 14 months.

Delric was in the living room of a home on Detroit’s west side Feb. 20 when someone sprayed it with gunfire from an AK-47. Other children in the home at the time were not injured.

Angel was cradled in his father’s arms on a sidewalk near their home in Los Angeles when a bicyclist rode by on June 4 and opened fire, killing the infant.

Most media reports don’t include information on the type of gun used, sometimes because police withhold it for investigation purposes.

Gun violence and the toll it is taking on children has been an issue raised for years in minority communities.

The NAACP failed in its attempt to hold gun makers accountable through a lawsuit filed in 1999. Some in the community raised the issue during the campaign and asked Obama after he was re-elected to make reducing gun violence, particularly as a cause of death for young children, part of his second-term agenda.

“Now that it’s clear that no community in this country is invulnerable from gun violence, from its children being stolen ... we can finally have the national conversation we all need to have,” said Ben Jealous, president of the NAACP.

This year’s gun deaths reviewed by the AP show the problem is not confined to the inner city or is simply the result of gang or drug violence, as often is the perception.

Faith Ehlen, 22 months, Autumn Cochran, 10, and Alyssa Cochran, 11, all died Sept. 6. Their mother killed them with the shotgun before turning it on herself. Police said she had written a goodbye email to her boyfriend before killing the children in DeSoto, Mo., a community of about 6,300.

In Dundee, Ore., Randall Engels used a gun to kill his estranged wife Amy Engels and son Jackson, 11, as they ate pizza on the Fourth of July. An older sibling of Jackson’s also was killed. Engels then committed suicide. The town of more than 5,000 people boasts on its website that it is a semirural town with “the cultural panache of a big city.”

Many of the children who died in 2012 were shot with guns that belonged to their parents, relatives or baby sitters, or were simply in the home. Webster said children’s accidental deaths by guns have fallen since states passed laws requiring that guns be locked away from youths or have safeties to keep them from firing.

But even people trained in gun use slip up — and the mistakes are costly.

A Springville, Utah, police officer had a non-service gun in his home that officials said did not have external safeties. His 2-year-old son found the gun and shot himself on Sept. 11. The names of the father and son were not released at the time of the shooting.

Obama has tapped Vice President Joe Biden to shape the administration’s response to the Newtown massacre. The administration will push to tighten gun laws, many that have faced resistance in Congress for years. The solutions may include reinstating a ban on assault-style rifles, closing gun buying background check loopholes and restricting high-capacity magazines.

Those may have limited effect for children like Amari Markel-Purrel Perkins, of Clinton, Md. He shot himself in the chest on April 9 with a gun that an adult had stashed inside a Spiderman backpack.

Like most of the child victims at Newtown, Amari was 6.

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/breaking-news/index.ssf/2012/12/gunfire_kills_young_children_d.html


Gun violence, and gun deaths, take a continuing toll on children in this country. The massacre of children at Sandy Hook Elementary School was just the most horrific, and dramatic, example of that.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  3  
Wed 26 Dec, 2012 05:44 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

DrewDad...anyone who has any of these guys on ignore are missing some of the best free amusement available anywhere!

I realize it can be disarming (!) to read some of the stuff they write...but if you (universal "you") do not get a belly laugh at some of the nonsense, you have no sense of humor.

Most of them are completely predictable; Gungasnake is a never-ending font of new ridiculousness.

I can't decide if he's batshit crazy, or the most brilliant satirist I've ever met.
spendius
 
  4  
Wed 26 Dec, 2012 06:00 pm
@DrewDad,
I have no sense of humour when I think of the 20th kid to be executed in cold blood. No one iota.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Wed 26 Dec, 2012 06:26 pm
@spendius,
It's a miracle spendius has 3 thumbs up lol
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Wed 26 Dec, 2012 07:07 pm
by Paul Steinberg , a psychiatrist in private practice.

Quote:
TOO many pendulums have swung in the wrong directions in the United States. I am not referring only to the bizarre all-or-nothing rhetoric around gun control, but to the swing in mental health care over the past 50 years: too little institutionalizing of teenagers and young adults (particularly men, generally more prone to violence) who have had a recent onset of schizophrenia; too little education about the public health impact of untreated mental illness; too few psychiatrists to talk about and treat severe mental disorders — even though the medications available in the past 15 to 20 years can be remarkably effective.

Instead we have too much concern about privacy, labeling and stereotyping, about the civil liberties of people who have horrifically distorted thinking. In our concern for the rights of people with mental illness, we have come to neglect the rights of ordinary Americans to be safe from the fear of being shot — at home and at schools, in movie theaters, houses of worship and shopping malls


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/26/opinion/our-failed-approach-to-schizophrenia.html?_r=0

not only does the collective have rights which are too often ignored but those with diseased brains have no logical right to continue to direct their own affairs, they should be committed and then have their decisions made by a trustworthy proxy.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Wed 26 Dec, 2012 07:23 pm
@spendius,
Somebody was being a scumbag and voted you down to 2
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  -1  
Wed 26 Dec, 2012 07:47 pm
@hawkeye10,
"Too little institutionalizing of young men"
Into what?

The all-american dream?
Scary thought that:)
oralloy
 
  -1  
Wed 26 Dec, 2012 08:27 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Nice try, oralloy. That was so cute. Now...go talk to the others and call most of them liars. Wink


Most of the others do not share your extreme dishonesty. Hopefully such measures will not be necessary.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Wed 26 Dec, 2012 08:28 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
It seems to me, oralloy, that Edward Hulme summed up your general position in his book Symbolism in Christian Art.

Quote:
The crocodile has been accepted as a symbol of dissimulation, from an old belief that this reptile sheds tears to attract the sympathy of passers by, in order that it may bring them within reach of its formidable jaws and devour them.


Nah. If this silly push to ensure that children remain unprotected results in more slaughter, I can assure you that I will not put any energy into faking any tears.



spendius wrote:
But you seem to forget that in a democracy a people should be free to choose to have their freedoms restricted if they judge that it is worth it. As it self-evidently is. Anarchy being the alternative.


We are a Constitutional democracy. People are not allowed to choose to violate the Constitution.

(Well, they can choose it I guess, but they aren't allowed to act on that choice.)




spendius wrote:
The argument that freedom in the UK, and in Australia, is less than it is in the US can only be made by assertion. None of the citizens in those countries can possibly be said to be free in any absolute sense and thus your use of the word "free" is an obvious sophistry.


Free people have the right to carry guns when they go about in public.

People who do not have the right to carry guns when they go about in public, are not free.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Wed 26 Dec, 2012 08:28 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
oralloy wrote:
parados wrote:
the NRA has a position that does nothing to prevent mass shootings.


Sure they do: Enact proper defenses.


That's not a position. That's a useless slogan.


Go ahead and leave the children defenseless. Won't be my problem next massacre.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Wed 26 Dec, 2012 08:29 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
Gee. and there is no constitutional right to own an assault weapon.


Constitution says otherwise.

The fact that there is no legitimate reason for banning a pistol grip or a flash suppressor means that doing so would violate Rational Basis Review.
Val Killmore
 
  0  
Wed 26 Dec, 2012 08:31 pm
@mark noble,
Ah, over here is the delusional prideful Brit. The true power lies with the Brits, but convincing such sheeplike people to use that power is the tricky part... Until then true power lies in the Palace of Westminster and Whitehall. And the most frightening thing about it is that the elite is not frightened any more.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Wed 26 Dec, 2012 08:33 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
oralloy wrote:
All the Republicans are doing is requiring a photo ID in order to vote. That is a perfectly reasonable barrier to raise.


So if a citizen should have to show a valid ID to a government official every time they want to exercise a Constitutional right does that mean every right can require a valid ID be shown to a government official before they exercise that right.

So.... Every time you want to carry your gun outside your home you must FIRST present a valid ID to a government official. That means EVERY TIME you want to do it. Not just when you register to carry a gun.


Best of luck getting that one past the NRA.
 

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