Earth to Msolga. Do you copy? Over!

@farmerman,

Well, I've found that geologists are particularly hard to please.

I often enjoyed dialogue with Msolga, and did recognize that, on a personal level she was an amiable and often interesting figure. However, I did find that her tolerance for disagreement or opposing views could be charitably described as minimal. When such a thing was expressed, she was often quick to repond with judgmental interrogations and demands for repentence. In the whaling thread she appeared to recognize no limits to the justifiable actions of porotestors against the Japanese whalers, or even the practical give and take attendant to her government's response to it. She appeared to have a very limited ability or inclination to consider alternate points of view or to acknowledge some of the evident contradictions in the absolute judgments she so willingly lavished on others.

With all that in mind, it does not surprise me that she ultimately found the free-wheelling give and take on A2k a bit intolerable.

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@farmerman,

Quote:

Whenever someone disagrees with me and it usually on an evolution or "rock" thread, I get impatient when they cannot reason their points and sink into superstition.

Well fm--I think asking for your evolutionist's view on the Handicap Principle, considering it is so important in evolution actuality, can hardly be classed as sinking into superstition, and you are so impatient about it that you are not speaking to us on the matter.

I think you just make it up as you go along like you did when you lectured us on being mellow and being up for some give and take.

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@georgeob1,

I think George that the both of us found that it was very trying discussing anything with Olga unless we agreed with her and she chose subjects in which opinions are pretty well polarised.

One can easily see why fm was sympathetic. They require their absurdly simplistic opinions to go through on the nod.

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I miss Olga a lot.

I have also yelled at her in a few past posts for scolding. I personally differ from many as I'm not a fan of incessant posts, which are sometimes ascribed as debate. My patience is small unless I am learning stuff. I know I have learned from her.

She is part of us, and losing her is like losing an arm.

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@ossobuco,

I miss her too. I had a few good dust ups with her.

If you're watching Olga please come back. I promise to be more gentle.

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@spendius,

Smooch.

Don't, of course, count on that continuing.

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@georgeob1,

Quote:

In the whaling thread she appeared to recognize no limits to the justifiable actions of porotestors against the Japanese whalers, or even the practical give and take attendant to her government's response to it. She appeared to have a very limited ability or inclination to consider alternate points of view or to acknowledge some of the evident contradictions in the absolute judgments she so willingly lavished on others.

Well thats a full quiver . Might I say that I agree with her position re: ILLEGAL SCIENTIFIC WHALING because its a scam to end run an international treaty. You must agree with that. The southern Sanctuary hd been worked out in boring detail and the Japanese have merely set it aside to various governments "pussy" responses
.

Several other people have taken your position and as I recall, msolga and I were fairly together on this. She and I disagreed about a term regarding "partnerships" among stock animals and their caretakers. I disagreed with her vehemently on tat topic but she never got so that we became nasty to each other. I think that several of 2Kers have little patience with opinions other than their own.
As I said in a recent political thread explaining why H2O man and Parados or Cyclo will never see eye to eye(at least re: politics)
The three of them operate from two totally different planes of reality (as You and I do regarding politics)

Ive never noted you to become insulting with me (or if you did I was maybe too obtuse to catch it).

Msolga seemed to be a target whenever certain groups of 2Kers happen to assmble by some rule of Brownian Movement.
Im just sorry that people dont see that we become less as a gathering of equals even when we lose those who disgree with us and , in the case of Msolga, I believe that what you percieve as some "at issue" stance by her, is merely a language barrier that she freely admitted several times and often asked questions about the general meaning of phrasesthat qe , as USers have almost as cliches and are meaningless to those from different brands of English speakers.

Just my thinking.

I freely admit that Im easily bored. I can cast insult after insult to those who, I know, have only insult planned for me (someone like spendi). I just quickl;y tire of that type of "go-round" cause its always the same fuckin topic with the same cast of referencs.

Well, Hope youhad a nice turkey day. We had a lovely bird done prfectly , Im sitting here on the couch watching a Se League college turkey classic Fooball game( I get bored of college fooball after the first half of the first quarter ) Id rather watch Olympic womens beach volleyball

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@farmerman,

Quote:

I freely admit that Im easily bored. I can cast insult after insult to those who, I know, have only insult planned for me (someone like spendi). I just quickl;y tire of that type of "go-round" cause its always the same fuckin topic with the same cast of referencs.

Of course it is. When you refuse to answer questions relating to the Handicap Principle in evolution, and whether or not you want religious beliefs and organisations liquidated, and try to make out that asking such questions of you is insulting then you lose me and anybody you find with such a silly, indeed infantile, gambit must be as stupid as you are.

Governments don't make "pussy" responses. That's your bone-marrow misogyny showing through again. They make decisions based on pragmatic considerations.

You have one dead turkey on your plate and some thousands of people have one dead whale on theirs. And some people claim that the thousands of beached whale suicides are caused by underwater sonic technology driving them mad.

Why is each whale more important to you than each turkey?

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@farmerman,

I belive I get your meaning here, and I do recall your (and sometimes, our) discussions on that thread. We were able to disagree, state the terms of our disagreements, and do so without villifying each other or casting moral judgments about our respective iunner motivations. Olga appeared to be quite unable to do that. My position was that I'm not in favor of harvesting whales, but am not willing to go to war with Japan or to attack their ships at sea to achieve it. MsOlga appeared to be highly impatient with that, taking it as some kind of moral offense. She seemed quite unable to see the rather obvious inconsistency of her logic on this issue with her positions on many others. Shrill and intolerant are the words I most associate most with her. I often got the impression that she had very little experience of the give and take that dominates human relations in the real world

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@georgeob1,

" I often got the impression that she had very little experience of the give and take that dominates human relations in the real world"

that's kinda funny. Ob.

I often get the impression that you have very little experience of the give and take that dominates human relations in the real world outside the elite circle of Marin county.

I think you should experience life in the trenches a little more often...

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@Rockhead,

It turns out that your impressions aren't worth much. You don't know me at all.

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@georgeob1,

obviously.

they come from beneath you...

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@georgeob1,

as to your edit to add that I don't know you, I do know you.

I know you by the words you choose to post...

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@georgeob1,

Im a card carrier of Sea Shepherds. Sometimes massive civil disobedience is the only way to wake up the masses who wish to stand by and wring their hands.
What Pul Watson and the crews are doing is incredibly foolhardy nd incredibly brave. I hope people see the messages theylive.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

.... Several other people have taken your position and as I recall, msolga and I were fairly together on this. She and I disagreed about a term regarding "partnerships" among stock animals and their caretakers. I disagreed with her vehemently on tat topic but she never got so that we became nasty to each other. I think that several of 2Kers have little patience with opinions other than their own.
As I said in a recent political thread explaining why H2O man and Parados or Cyclo will never see eye to eye(at least re: politics)
The three of them operate from two totally different planes of reality (as You and I do regarding politics)

I agree with that. It is interesting that we can disagree on political issues and state our respective views forcefully without becoming personally agitated about it. For me, I simply accept your views and try to think about the rationales you provide - as an exercise in understanding different perspectives. I assume your reactions are somewhat similar - ultimately our different perspectives rest on different assumptions about the relative value or importance of the issues involved. We've both been around long enough to know that no one is right about everything all the time, and are a bit weary of those who are certain they are the sole exception to the rule (though their number is legion).

farmerman wrote:

]Ive never noted you to become insulting with me (or if you did I was maybe too obtuse to catch it).

I enjoy your posts usuallyy even those in which you disagree.

farmerman wrote:

Msolga seemed to be a target whenever certain groups of 2Kers happen to assmble by some rule of Brownian Movement.
Im just sorry that people dont see that we become less as a gathering of equals even when we lose those who disgree with us and , in the case of Msolga, I believe that what you percieve as some "at issue" stance by her, is merely a language barrier that she freely admitted several times and often asked questions about the general meaning of phrasesthat qe , as USers have almost as cliches and are meaningless to those from different brands of English speakers.

Well, I hadn't thought oif that. I've had the vague impression that she was from Ukraine or Scandanavia, but hadn't considered that English was a second language for her. That could indeed have been a factor in my observations. I'll confess to a distaste for that sliver of humanity which professes to know beyond doubt what is good for the rest of us, and detected a lot of that in Olga.

farmerman wrote:

Well, Hope youhad a nice turkey day. We had a lovely bird done prfectly , ...

I did indeed - just got back. Thanks for the good wishes.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Im a card carrier of Sea Shepherds. Sometimes massive civil disobedience is the only way to wake up the masses who wish to stand by and wring their hands.
What Pul Watson and the crews are doing is incredibly foolhardy nd incredibly brave. I hope people see the messages theylive.

From some of the TV films I have seen that is a lot more than civil disobediance. As a mimimum their maneuvers are direct, flagrant violations of the Law of the Sea Indeed assault and reckless endangerment of other people are terms that come to mind.

Perhaps its the sea captain in me. The Soviets used to occasionally pull that kind of stuff with us (but not at such close distances) - stuff like crossing our bow during aircraft launches at close ranges, and radio assertions that they had the right of way, etc. On a couple of occasions I made it clear on the international maratime VHF radio channel that I would not turn to avoid them and that a collision would do much more damage to them than me. Occasionally I had a fighter dump fuel on him or strafe the water just ahead of his bow. That usually ended the show.

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@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

I've had the vague impression that she was from Ukraine or Scandanavia, but hadn't considered that English was a second language for her.

I think American English is a second language for her, with Aussie English being number one (as far as I know).

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Miss Olga had said that she is of Ukrainian descent, her parents being refugees. I don't know if she was born in the Ukraine or Oz, but she definitely grew up in Oz. English is her first language. For as often as i disagreed with her (which was probably considerably less than half the time), i never found any fault with either her language expression or comprehension. She often asked questions about the American constitution, and party politics here, and it was obvious that she got it right away.

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@georgeob1,

Quote:

From some of the TV films I have seen that is a lot more than civil disobediance.

You say tomato , I sy Bullshit Very Happy

As I sid, it often takes civil disobedience to effect changes.
The JApanese have NO aboriginal claim that they eat whale meat any more thanAmerica can claim that eating snail darters is part of our "Nutritional Heritage"

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@Setanta,

She had problems ith our vernacular. Id often explained what a US phrase often meant , because she missed out on some particular meaning ( Of course , many times I was also the one who employed the vernacular in the firt place..

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Earth to Msolga. Do you copy? Over!

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