Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 May, 2013 08:52 pm
@parados,
The truth that is quite similar to the truth revealed about Watergate and the Iran/Contras scandal.

I'm fairly sure you recognized those "truths" to be part of the real truth.

Whenever someone starts going squishy on what truth is, you can bet your last dollar they are afraid of the truth.

How can anyone (even the vaunted Washington Post) fact check her statement of "What difference does it make!"?

Explain to us the context of her statement.

Explain to us how it doesn't make any difference whether our government lied to us or not.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 May, 2013 09:02 pm
@parados,
He was there, he was a member of the experience. He was first hand.

What facts has Hillary provided?

What is the point of debating this issue with you? Hillary could tell us that no one actually died there and you would defend her statement in some fashion.

In your world all Republican politicians are mendacious scum while all Democrat politicians are paragons of honesty and virtue.

The Inspector General's State Department office is investigating the internal panel that found that, essentially, no one (other than a couple of low level clods) were to blame. Do you really think that this is par for the course?

Thank God we have people in the government who take their jobs seriously.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 May, 2013 09:06 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Whenever someone starts going squishy on what truth is, you can bet your last dollar they are afraid of the truth.
The truth is always squishy.
The truth of WMD in Iraq was squishy.
The truth of what happened on 9/11 is squishy.

Just because the truth is squishy doesn't mean a vast conspiracy by the people in power .

Quote:
How can anyone (even the vaunted Washington Post) fact check her statement of "What difference does it make!"?
You mean the statement you keep taking out of context? It seems your "truth" about what Clinton said is quite squishy. Should we bet your last dollar that you are afraid of the truth?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 May, 2013 09:07 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:

The Inspector General's State Department office is investigating the internal panel that found that, essentially, no one (other than a couple of low level clods) were to blame. Do you really think that this is par for the course?

AN internal panel found that no one other than a couple of low level clods were to blame? Really? Can you point me to that document so I can see how squishy your truth is again?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 May, 2013 09:08 pm
@parados,
I will give you some credit though. You are the only liberal who is trying to defend the Administration.

Of course the others are locked into the notion that the topic is beneath discussion.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 May, 2013 09:15 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Let's look at the squishy truth that people like Spurt have been presenting.

Hicks confirmed that Afrocom stated that night would take 2-3 hours to get planes to Libya but there were no tankers available.
It seems people like Spurt keep arguing that those fighters could have been there in no time at all in spite of the evidence to the contrary. Who should we trust on that one do you think?

Hicks confirmed that the information coming out of Benghazi was incomplete that night. There were a lot of unknowns including whether the hospital might be an ambush.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 May, 2013 09:16 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:

What facts has Hillary provided?

Hillary provided facts about what she knew and her response. Something Hicks has little knowledge of other than her phone call.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 May, 2013 09:18 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

I will give you some credit though. You are the only liberal who is trying to defend the Administration.

Of course the others are locked into the notion that the topic is beneath discussion.

Meanwhile you STILL have not given me specifics about WHAT the whistle blowers have provided that is new or substantial in their testimony.

Your inability to quickly point it out leaves me to believe there was nothing new or substantial and will leave everyone with that impression that doesn't have a political dog in the fight.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 May, 2013 09:23 pm
@parados,
Anyone who has read my posts in this forum will realize I almost never defend the assertion of another poster.

I am assuming that your insulting use of "Spurt" refers to H2OMan. It hardly speaks well of you that you rely on such a childish device, but you will have to ask him to defend what he has asserted. I don't speak for others.

If all you took from Hick's testimony is that the info coming out of Benghazi was incomplete in real time, then you have revealed how thick the walls of your denial actually are.

If you have to struggle to explain a position you want to believe then the chances are you shouldn't believe in that position.
parados
 
  4  
Reply Wed 8 May, 2013 09:25 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:


If all you took from Hick's testimony is that the info coming out of Benghazi was incomplete in real time, then you have revealed how thick the walls of your denial actually are.


Meanwhile you STILL have not given me specifics about WHAT the whistle blowers have provided that is new or substantial in their testimony.

Your inability to quickly point it out leaves me to believe there was nothing new or substantial and will leave everyone with that impression that doesn't have a political dog in the fight.

Until you can clearly show what that testimony was then most people will think there was nothing there. And in reality, there seems to be nothing of any consequence there.

By the way, what report did you reference but now can't provide so we can check your squishy facts?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 May, 2013 09:49 pm
@parados,
You never asked for the specifics of the Whistle Blowers so your use of "still" whether capitalized or not is a lame feint.

Never-the-less:

According to Hicks, "everybody in the mission" believed it was an act of terror "from the get-go." But on Sept. 16 -- five days after the attack -- U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice hit the Sunday show circuit, peddling the theory that the strike began "spontaneously" out of protests in Egypt and was not a premeditated terrorist act. Rice's spot on "Face the Nation" that day was preceded by the new president of Libya, Mohammed al-Magariaf, who said his government had "no doubt that this was pre-planned, predetermined."

The former deputy chief of mission for the U.S. in Libya, Gregory Hicks, was interviewed by congressional investigators on the House Oversight Committee in April. He told them, "we had already essentially stripped ourselves of our security presence, or our security capability to the bare minimum."

A: So Lieutenant Colonel Gibson, who is the SOCAFRICA commander, his team, you know, they were on their way to the vehicles to go to the airport to get on the C-130 when he got a phone call from SOCAFRICA which said, you can't go now, you don't have authority to go now. And so they missed the flight. And, of course, this meant that one of the . . .
Q : They didn't miss the flight. They were told not to board the flight.
A: They were told not to board the flight, so they missed it. So, anyway, and yeah. I still remember Colonel Gibson, he said, "I have never been so embarrassed in my life that a State Department officer has bigger balls than somebody in the military." A nice compliment.


On the night of Sept. 11, as the Obama administration scrambled to respond to the Benghazi terror attacks, then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and a key aide effectively tried to cut the department's own counterterrorism bureau out of the chain of reporting and decision-making, according to a "whistle-blower" witness from that bureau who will soon testify to the charge before Congress

Greg Hicks: The net impact of what has transpired is the spokesperson of the most powerful country in the world has basically said that the President of Libya is either a liar or doesn't know what he's talking about. The impact of that is immeasurable. Magariaf has just lost face in front of not only his own people, but the world... my jaw hit the floor as I watched this... I've never been as embarrassed in my life, in my career as on that day... I never reported a demonstration; I reported an attack on the consulate. Chris's last report, if you want to say his final report, is, "Greg, we are under attack." ... It is jaw-dropping that - to me that - how that came to be....and in a fit of understandable pique, Magariaf stonewalled our FBI investigators and didn't instruct his forces to preserve the crime scene.

And there is more if you care to look, but your position like all liberals is and has been "Nothing to see here. Move on." Carney tells us this is old news.

At what point will you discard your partisan brain-washing and ask what really happened? Your take on the Bush Administration is that each and every decion made was vile, mendacious, or utterly incompetent, and yet you have absolute faith that the Obama Administration is beyond reproach.



gungasnake
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2013 04:17 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
I seriously doubt that Obama will be impeached or resign as a result of this incident.


I wouldn't want to have to bet it one way or other. What appears to be the case is that many legislators are coming to the conclusion that the United States is not going to survive eight years of this administration.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2013 04:20 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
@parados,
As expected.


I have paradork on ignore; you might want to consider it...
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  4  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2013 08:21 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
So.. it is some big scandal because Rice didn't use the word "terrorism" when she was on TV?

You really think that is a scandal? Do you obsess about the ring left in your bath tub too?

Frankly Finn, no one really cares about when the administration classified it as terrorism. It's a tempest in a teapot. In 20 years, when Benghazi was classified as terrorism will be forgotten while the use of "Curveball" by the Bush administration to make the case for Iraq will be of much interest to historians.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2013 09:06 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

You never asked for the specifics of the Whistle Blowers so your use of "still" whether capitalized or not is a lame feint.




http://able2know.org/topic/199238-16#post-5321515
http://able2know.org/topic/199238-17#post-5322377
http://able2know.org/topic/199238-17#post-5322385


Let me ask again....
What specific info have they revealed that is new or interesting? It's all a repeat of old news and their opinions about what people said or did.


Quote:
Your take on the Bush Administration is that each and every decion made was vile, mendacious, or utterly incompetent, and yet you have absolute faith that the Obama Administration is beyond reproach.
Really? When did I say every decision by the Bush administration was vile, mendacious or incompetent. I know full well that the US can't stop every attack and don't blame 9/11 on Bush's incompetence. I don't like the fact that his administration never held a meeting on terrorism but I don't assume that if they had it would have prevented anything. I don't like the fact that the Bush administration said flying planes into buildings was never considered prior to 9/11 but I don't think it was some great scandal that they tried to protect their asses even though evidence exists that it was considered.
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2013 10:09 am

Quote:
“I think the dam is about to break on Benghazi,” Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) wrote on his Facebook page on Tuesday, one day before the House Republicans’ hearing on what they — and Fox News — billed as an exposé of a nefarious Obama administration cover-up of its inadequate response to the terror attacks there last year.

Yet — while we heard gut wrenching testimony of how the attacks unfolded from former deputy chief of mission in Libya Greg Hicks — as predicted, no new information came out of the hearing, either about the attacks themselves, any kind of administration cover-up, or any wrongdoing from former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton — the GOP’s apparent new target in its ongoing Benghazi witch-hunt (a targeting that some media outlets are happy to play along with). Ironically, the GOP’s witnesses ended up debunking many of the right-wing conspiracy theories on Benghazi.

Moreover, their testimony “did not fundamentally challenge the facts and timeline of the Benghazi attack and the administration’s response to it,” the New York Times observed. And as the Wall Street Journal noted, “the hearing didn’t shed new light” on whether the military was in a position to mount a rescue the night of the attacks (the military and the State Department’s Accountability Review Board on Benghazi says it was not).

“[T]his investigation is perhaps the most organized, concerted effort that House Republicans have made on anything in Congress since they took control of the House,” MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow said on Wednesday, adding: ““If you say Benghazi enough, if you teach enough people who only type with the Caps Lock key on Twitter to spell Benghazi… then eventually President Obama will be impeached. Or resign.”

Comedy Central’s Jon Stewart has more on the GOP-led absurdity, noting that “the denizens of Bullshit Mountain” — a.k.a. Fox News — “have cried wolf before.”


Links at the source

(know it is a liberal blog, however, if it didn't have links, I wouldn't have posted it)

From the same source with links.

Quote:
The “whistleblowers” at today’s House Oversight Committee hearing on what really happened in Benghazi, Libya last September were supposed to break the dam that would lead to President Obama’s eventual downfall, in the eyes of conservatives. Instead, these witness actually served to debunk several theories that the right-wing has pushed on Benghazi, leaving the hearing a fizzle for the GOP:

1. F-16s could have been sent to Benghazi

Part of the prevailing theory surrounding the events the night of the Benghazi attacks is that the Obama administration did not do enough militarily to respond to the crisis. Gregory Hicks — a Foreign Service Officer and the former Deputy Chief of Mission at the U.S. Embassy in Libya — claimed during his pre-hearing testimony that fighter jets could have been flown over Benghazi, preventing the second wave of the attack from occurring.

Ranking Member Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD) questioned that statement, asking Hicks whether he disagreed with Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff Gen Martin Dempsey’s assessment that no air assets were in range the night of the attack. Hicks didn’t disagree, saying he was “speaking from [his] perspective” and what “veteran Libyan revolutionaries” told him, rather than Pentagon assessments.

2. Hillary Clinton signed cables denying additional security to Benghazi

House Republicans came to the conclusion in their interim report on Benghazi that former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton lied to them about what she knew and when during her testimony this January. This includes her statement that at no time was she aware of requests for additional security at the diplomatic facility in Benghazi prior to the attack.

Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-NY) used her time to take issue with this claim, asking all three witnesses about standard protocol for cables leaving the State Department. All three agreed with Maloney, that the Secretary of State’s name is placed at the bottom of all outgoing cables and telegrams from Foggy Bottom, whether the Secretary has viewed them or not, shooting down the GOP claim.

3. A Special Forces Team that could have saved lives was told to stand down

One of the most shocking reveals in the lead-up to today’s hearing was that a team of Special Forces in Tripoli were told not to deploy to Benghazi during the attack. That decision has led to an uproar on the right, including claims of dereliction of duty towards Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Gen. Martin Dempsey for not taking actions that could have saved lives.

During questioning, Hicks confirmed that the team was ready to be deployed — not to join the fighting at the CIA annex — but “to secure the airport for the withdrawal of our personnel from Benghazi after the mortar attack.” Hicks also confirmed that it was the second such team to be readied for deployment, with the first having proceeded to Benghazi earlier. Despite the second team not deploying, the staff was all evacuated first to Tripoli, then to Germany, within 18 hours of the attack taking place.



In the end, all we are left with is a quibble over the whether the adminstration wanted to protray the attack as a terrorist attack. Since Rice was given talking points and Obama did use the words "act of terror" the day after the attack, I honestly don't see what all the big hoopla is about other than just wanting to stick it to Obama and being stubborn enough to waste tax money and congressional time on just like voting to repeal Obamacare for about the 40th time.

As if the first 39 times left unanswered questions




H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2013 10:21 am


The tragic chain of events in Benghazi look more and more like a liberal leadership clusterfuck-FUBAR. The Obama administration is not optimal. They aren't real world qualified for the difficult jobs we elected/hired them to do. This is America's idiocracy on display for all to see. This is not the change this country needed. These are not the people we have been waiting for. This is not an impeachable offence. This is just stupid and tragic.

Why the left continues to politicize this terrorist attack is a mystery.
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2013 10:45 am
@H2O MAN,
Republicans and the Benghazi Hearings: They Didn't Complain About Bush and All the Terrorist Attacks on Diplomats Under His Watch

Quote:
DEE EVANS FOR BUZZFLASH AT TRUTHOUT

What do these numbers and countries mean?

In 2002 Karachi, Pakistan; 2004, Uzbekistan; 2004, Saudi Arabia; 2006, Syria; 2007, Athens; 2008, Serbia; 2008, Yemen.

No, it's not a puzzle, but given the current nature of our political discourse, the story behind it will no doubt puzzle you.

Listed above are the years and countries where United States' Embassies were attacked under our previous commander-in-chief, George W. Bush. I found this to be quite revealing given the all out "hair on fire" witch hunt that is currently taking place amongst conservative pundits and Republicans in Congress over the embassy attack in Benghazi, Libya last year. Now, I will be the first to say that even one person killed in an attack on our embassies is too many, but the fact that seven (count 'em SEVEN!) embassies were attacked and many people killed under the previous Republican administration and we heard nary a word of dismay is more than puzzling, it's downright unbelievable!

Now where does the Republican hero of heroes stand on the attack meter? There were three embassy attacks during Ronald Reagan's presidency, two in 1983 - Beirut (more than 60 killed including 17 Americans) and Kuwait - and one in 1987 in Italy.

In fact, history shows that each of the presidents of the past few decades have had to deal with embassy attacks and bombings. For some reason, I don't ever recall there being so much unrest following an attack as there is now under President Obama.

I guess what really sent me reeling was today when I read about Mike Huckabee's well-crafted remarks on the radio that "Benghazi will be Obama's Watergate" and "this President will not fill out his full term". Excuse me? Let me get this straight. Not only did 9/11 happen on Bush's watch, but seven embassy attacks and Obama is the one that will be ousted? Huckabee claimed that the so-called Benghazi "cover-up" was worse than Watergate "because no one died." Well, I have one question for Mr. Huckabee: How many people died because of the Iraq War "weapons of mass destruction" cover-up? How many American soldiers gave their lives for a war of choice built on exaggeration, manipulation and outright lies? Is that worse than Watergate?

But see, we can't mention that because Bush "kept us safe" remember? Sorry, but if you think that's safe then I have a bridge in San Francisco I want to sell you.

I agree that there may still be some questions that need to be answered regarding the attacks in Benghazi and the families of those who died who have questions deserve to have their questions answered. However, the level of vitriol that is coming out of the Right because of these attacks is undeniably partisan and disgusting.

What's even more outrageous is that absolutely no one is discussing the fact that it was the House Republicans who cut $300 million from the Obama administration's US embassy security budget not long before the embassy attack in Benghazi took place. Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-UT), who is one of the Republicans bravely leading the Benghazi charge, didn't seem too concerned about the embassy in Libya last year when he made the following statement on CNN in an interview with Soledad O'Brien.


O'BRIEN: Is it true that you voted to cut the funding for embassy security?

CHAFFETZ: Absolutely. Look, we have to make priorities and choices in this country. We have - think about this - 15,000 contractors in Iraq. We have more than 6,000 contractors, private army there for President Obama in Baghdad.

And we're talking about can we get two dozen or so people into Libya to help protect our forces? When you're in tough economic times, you have to make difficult choices how to prioritize this.

As Washington Post's Dana Milbank wrote:


For fiscal 2013, the GOP-controlled House proposed spending $1.934 billion for the State Department's Worldwide Security Protection program — well below the $2.15 billion requested by the Obama administration. House Republicans cut the administration's request for embassy security funding by $128 million in fiscal 2011 and $331 million in fiscal 2012. ...Secretary of State Hillary Clinton warned that Republicans' proposed cuts to her department would be "detrimental to America's national security" — a charge Republicans rejected.

So in a nutshell this is what is just driving me to the brink of insanity. Republicans are on a non-stop witch hunt about lack of security at the US Embassy in Benghazi and yet no one in the media (except Soledad...why was she let go again?) seems to be questioning the indisputable fact that it was Republicans who insisted on cutting the funding for embassy security right before the embassy in Benghazi was attacked. Absolutely no one seems to be holding the Republicans feet to the fire that they helped set!

I had a thought a few years ago about how this country came together after September 11 and how Democrats and Republicans put partisan politics aside for the good of the country. I thought about how the Democrats rallied around George W. Bush following the attack and pretty much voted yes to anything he wanted in the spirit of "we're all in this together". I wondered out loud what would happen if God forbid something like that happened today? Would the country (and Republicans) rally around the President for the good of the country, would the Republicans vote yes on anything President Obama asked or would there be the blame-game, finger-pointing, and hearings about what Obama did wrong? Unfortunately, I think we all know the answer to this one and it actually saddens me.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2013 09:32 pm
@parados,
No one really cares?

Obviously not true, as much as you would like it to be.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 May, 2013 09:36 pm
@parados,
Well I can't make you interested in what they have said, and so what point is there in providing you with additional citations?

You're not interested because you can't be. To do so might shake your foundational belief in the rightness of the Obama Administration.
 

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