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U.S. middle east policy, pros and cons: discuss

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Thu 27 Sep, 2012 09:52 am
@revelette,
"Anti-Semitic" by most Zionists.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  2  
Reply Thu 27 Sep, 2012 10:37 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Damned Jews run everything in this country.


At the behest of American WASP's.
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  2  
Reply Thu 27 Sep, 2012 11:35 am
LATimes reporting another movie coming out about Morsi's favorite prophet lol.

Grid your lions and pass the popcorn!!!

(And Bite me, Morsi!)
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Sep, 2012 11:45 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Your tone was very ironic Finn, almost assuming corruption is a given. The Moslem Brotherhood may not be most people's cup of tea, but they're not corrupt. They've been very vocal critics of corruption in fact.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Sep, 2012 11:54 am
@Foofie,
You have it backwards.

In terms of cause and effect in regard to this conflict, repression is the cause and suicide bombs have been part of the effect.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  0  
Reply Thu 27 Sep, 2012 12:04 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

That does not negate the fact that Israel was created for the benefit of the European Jews. The Sephardic Jews were caught up in the fiasco that followed Israel’s creation. Their expulsion from the countries of the Middle East benefited Israel in populating the country.



It does not matter for whom it was created. Just like the U.S. was created for the benefit of Protestants that did not fit into the religious beliefs of Europe. And now the U.S. is a very diverse society that the world thinks of as a diverse society (and so many people of diverse backgrounds want to come to the U.S.).


Tell the Zionists that it does not matter for whom Israel was created.

The US' diversity has nothing to do with Israel's ethnocentrism. It's a joke that you attempt to compare them.



Quote:
So, Israel presently has a Sephardic majority, and their countries of origin in the Middle East do not want them back. No different than the displaced people after the Holocaust that could not return to their countries of origin.

You seem to have little problem with the fact that Israel is actually composed of people that would have no country to live in, if it were not for the Zionist state, in my opinion.


That these people would have no country to live in other than Israel does not justify Israel's repression of the Palestinian people.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Thu 27 Sep, 2012 01:01 pm
@InfraBlue,
You wrote,
Quote:
Tell the Zionists that it does not matter for whom Israel was created.

The US' diversity has nothing to do with Israel's ethnocentrism. It's a joke that you attempt to compare them.


It only proves how tainted Foofie's thinking is on this topic.
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Sep, 2012 02:05 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
They've been very vocal critics of corruption in fact.
Kind of like they're huge advocates for freedom of expression.

And they're the bomb on women's rights dontchaknow.
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Sep, 2012 02:19 pm
@Irishk,
The quagmire of the last few pages reminds me of the conflict in...oh wait, Israel.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Sep, 2012 04:25 pm
@Irishk,
And they have also won a free and fair election. That's how democracy works, it's what the Egyptian people want, not what the American people want.

Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Sep, 2012 05:50 pm
@izzythepush,
Elections do not a democracy make.

And it is our business when he tells the NYT:

Quote:
He said the United States must respect the Arab world’s history and culture, even when that conflicts with Western values.


Or else?

His brand of democracy is to sentence a Coptic Christian to six years in prison for the crime of 'insulting' him.

Two Egyptian journalists are facing the same fate. Their crime? They insulted the smelly little weasel, Morsi.

If we had his brand of 'democracy', half the population would be in prison (insulting politicians is practically a national past time here).

(He's still not getting his buddy the blind sheik back, which, IMO is why he's engaging in this particular show of chest-thumping).




Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Sep, 2012 06:10 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

That these people would have no country to live in other than Israel does not justify Israel's repression of the Palestinian people.


The Palestinean people are not repressed anymore than they were under the Ottoman Empire. But, I guess when Jews are in charge that is really humiliating for a non-Jew.

I suspect that accepting a Jewish state is very humiliating for many a Gentile worth his soccer ball.

By the way, Israel is an ethnocentric state due to the ethnocentrism of Europe. Perhaps, they learned it over the two-thousand year learning curve of state sponsored anti-Semitism?
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Sep, 2012 06:15 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

It only proves how tainted Foofie's thinking is on this topic.


"Tainted" with what? I think it is tainted with a belief in American exceptionalism. In the greater scheme of things, in my opinion, your thinking is really of little import. I think that is why some of this forum is just a mutual admiration society of sorts.
Foofie
 
  2  
Reply Thu 27 Sep, 2012 06:19 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

And they have also won a free and fair election. That's how democracy works, it's what the Egyptian people want, not what the American people want.




I think the Egyptian people want what they collectively do not have the resources to get, and that is a prosperous economy. They nicely hurt tourism by attacking that lady news reporter a while back.

0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Sep, 2012 06:21 pm
@Irishk,
Irishk wrote:

Elections do not a democracy make.

And it is our business when he tells the NYT:

Quote:
He said the United States must respect the Arab world’s history and culture, even when that conflicts with Western values.


Or else?

His brand of democracy is to sentence a Coptic Christian to six years in prison for the crime of 'insulting' him.

Two Egyptian journalists are facing the same fate. Their crime? They insulted the smelly little weasel, Morsi.

If we had his brand of 'democracy', half the population would be in prison (insulting politicians is practically a national past time here).

(He's still not getting his buddy the blind sheik back, which, IMO is why he's engaging in this particular show of chest-thumping).




Don't stop now.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Sep, 2012 06:24 pm
@Foofie,
You'll never now. Don't try too hard to understand, because it'll be hopeless in your case.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 12:20 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

That these people would have no country to live in other than Israel does not justify Israel's repression of the Palestinian people.


The Palestinean people are not repressed anymore than they were under the Ottoman Empire. But, I guess when Jews are in charge that is really humiliating for a non-Jew.


Here's a clue for you, we're in the Twenty-First Century, not the Sixteenth, nor even the Nineteenth one. Get with the times.

Quote:
I suspect that accepting a Jewish state is very humiliating for many a Gentile worth his soccer ball.


Accepting a repressive state would be equally humiliating whether at the hands of Jews or, say, the Amish. Or, do you think that the Amish would offer a kinder, gentler oppression?

Quote:
By the way, Israel is an ethnocentric state due to the ethnocentrism of Europe. Perhaps, they learned it over the two-thousand year learning curve of state sponsored anti-Semitism?


That Israel may have learned ethnocentrism from Europe on a possible two-thousand year learning curve of state sponsored anti-Semitism does not justify the Zionists' discrimination against and oppression of the Palestinian peoples.
InfraBlue
 
  3  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 12:21 am
Bibi Netanyahu ended his speech yesterday at the UN with a rhetorical flourish about Jewish traditions being at the forefront of efforts to expand liberty, promote equality and advance human rights, and that Jews heed the words of the prophets Isaiah, Amos and Jeremiah to treat all with dignity and compassion, to pursue justice and cherish life and pray to strive for peace.

The barefaced hypocrite would do well to practice what he preaches and promote equality and advance human rights and pursue justice for, and treat with dignity and compassion the Palestinian people.

It behooves him and the Israelis to be more Jewish and less Zionist.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 01:35 am
@Irishk,
The president can't sentence anyone, that's down to the judiciary. Please provide links for all your claims. So far Morsi has been critical of both Syria and Iran, and has acted in a democratic manner. He really needs to be given a chance.

As for the aid, that was for observing the treaty with Egypt, he's not broken it.

Whichever way you look at it, Egypt is far more democratic than America's ally Bahrain, and you've not criticised them at all.

Quote:
A court in Bahrain has sentenced the prominent pro-democracy activist, Zainab al-Khawaja, to two months in prison.

A judicial source said she had been found guilty of destroying government property, which her lawyer said related to her ripping up a picture of the king.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19727534
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 02:08 am
@InfraBlue,
I don't see anything wrong with zionism - if by that you mean a State where Jews will always have safe refuge. I'm lead to believe there are different variations past that central theme that are more dubious in nature.

Personally the term is rather polarising and symbolic. That alone creates problems - see Infrablue's last post and it's tone and implications.
0 Replies
 
 

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