Is this a specious argument for pro-abortion?

@spendius,

I've never said abortion is a good thing, nor have I claimed men bear no responsibility. I couldn't give a monkeys whether or not you vote.

If you want to get the rates of abortion down you need to adopt the Dutch model, not change the law, that will only give rise to backstreet abortions and increased mortality rates.

The godsquad are trying to influence the Tories at the moment. Any group that claims to know what's right for all of us, at attempts to inflict belief that on society at large is malign.

At the end of the day it's the woman's right to choose. End of.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

And I don't give a monkey's what sophistries you come up with.

Abortion is disgusting. End of.

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@spendius,

Backstreet abortion is considerably more disgusting.

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@spendius,

How many people must have wondered whether their mother considered aborting them? Would they dare ask? If they did can they rely on the honesty you claim for yourself?

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

Backstreet abortion is considerably more disgusting.

It wouldn't happen if the penalties were severe enough. And a backstreet abortionist is easily detected.

Why is a backstreet abortion more disgusting than a converted country house abortion set in secluded gardens if the "medical" staff are competent. They are equally disgusting.

The "saving lives" hand-wringing is ridiculous. When are you closing the roads and shutting down armaments manufacture?

I'll admit it is safe and most companies will nod their approval.

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@spendius,

The penalties for dealing in drugs in Thailand are very severe. Doesn't stop it happening.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

How many people must have wondered whether their mother considered aborting them? Would they dare ask? If they did can they rely on the honesty you claim for yourself?

You can keep trying to tug at the heart strings of the readers but it really doesn't help. I'll play along and answer your question. I wouldn't care if my mother had aborted me. Seems odd to say that since I wouldn't even be aware of it. But I'm sure if she went through with it, she had a good reason to. She wasn't ready to have a child, couldn't afford it, didn't want to bring a child into this crazy world, ect, ect, ect. The reason is her's. No one should have the right to dictate how she should respond.

Just because you don't like it spend doesn't mean everyone else should think the same way. If you don't like it, then you don't have one or the person you with. But you can't expect everyone to behave how you want them to, nor should you impose it upon them. To do that will only cause more problems.

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@spendius,

so don't have one

what anyone else does with their bodies is really none of your business

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Quote:
Backstreet abortion is considerably more disgusting.

It wouldn't happen if the penalties were severe enough. And a backstreet abortionist is easily detected.

Why is a backstreet abortion more disgusting than a converted country house abortion set in secluded gardens if the "medical" staff are competent. They are equally disgusting.

The "saving lives" hand-wringing is ridiculous. When are you closing the roads and shutting down armaments manufacture?

I'll admit it is safe and most companies will nod their approval.

You are neglecting one aspect of this. You know when abortions were illegal there were women who were taken advantage of in their desperation they went to doctors who they thought were legitimate. They paid the money, went to some house and the doctor performed the procedure only to end in the woman's death because he didn't care about using proper instruments or cleaning equipment.

Some bled to death and others died from infections. This really happened and there are thousands of cases of it. You can't prevent these from happening. There will be a huge profit for con artists to make a **** load of money if abortions were illegal. This is why it is dangerous and should remain legal. So women have a proper safer outlet if they feel the need to go through with it.

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@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

Any of the same people that say a woman can do what she wants with her body, seem to object to incest

really? who are those "any of the same people" ?

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@mysteryman,

I object to children being born of incest for genetic reasons and adult/child incest for control/support reasons, but if two adult relatives want to get it on then it's none of my business. Those who oppose abortion but endorse capital punishment are true hypocrites in my book.

1 Reply

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Quote:
Backstreet abortion is considerably more disgusting.

It wouldn't happen if the penalties were severe enough. And a backstreet abortionist is easily detected.

Penalties on whom? The woman who gives herself an abortion? Really? What, exactly, do you propose as the penalty for a self-induced coat hanger?

1 Reply

@Krumple,

Quote:

You can keep trying to tug at the heart strings of the readers but it really doesn't help. I'll play along and answer your question. I wouldn't care if my mother had aborted me. Seems odd to say that since I wouldn't even be aware of it.

That wasn't the situation I posited and you damn well know it. That sort of deliberate misreading of my post doesn't help either.

Quote:

But I'm sure if she went through with it, she had a good reason to. She wasn't ready to have a child, couldn't afford it, didn't want to bring a child into this crazy world, ect, ect, ect. The reason is her's. No one should have the right to dictate how she should respond.

The unborn kid has no defenders eh? It's a clump of cells.

She should have thought about all that before she allowed somebody who doesn't give a damn about her to shag her gratuitously. She didn't suddenly become not ready to have a child, and suddenly unable to afford it and suddenly realised it is a crazy world at the moment she knew she was pregnant. That would be stretching credulity further than it is usually stretched.

When abortion is openly talked about, approved by the authorities, who all have their names signed on the bottom, a future Dante might note, and recommend, when the little bugger has fought its way through to life, no less, at an inconvenient time, it is obvious that any intelligent person would sometimes wonder if their parents had considered, debated, added up the ******* pros and cons and the argy-bargy and decided to let them live by a vote of 5 to 2.

And if they felt ignorant enough to ask could they rely on a honest answer.

Such as "Yes--we did consider the matter. Your grandparents on your father's side and your father voted with your sister to terminate you. Your mother was undecided because her mothering instinct was at war with what people would think. Your maternal grandparents voted to let you live. Your mother acquiesced, amidst many tears, to the majority vote to make it 5 to 2. She bottled it in the clinic waiting room however and on returning home entire was greeted with tears of joy by her parents who have never spoken to the other lot since except in court when getting £100 a week out of the father. And good enough for him too. So come here and give me a hug my little pride and joy, I'm so proud of you working in the White House."

What on earth would a Darwinian make of the concept of "an inconvenient time"? Same as they would an anal retentive killing a weed that had struggled towards the sun through the crazy paving on the patio. They would only laugh if the anal retentive claimed to be a Darwinian. At the sheer absurdity I mean.

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@JPB,

Quote:

What, exactly, do you propose as the penalty for a self-induced coat hanger?

Better advice.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

She should have thought about all that before she allowed somebody who doesn't give a damn about her to shag her gratuitously.

It doesn't work like that. It isn't ever as simple as that. Sex isn't always something that is well thought out logically in advance. At least not on the planet I live on. Perhaps the planet you live on everything is cut and dry and spelled out all plain and boring like. I don't know.

spendius wrote:

She didn't suddenly become not ready to have a child, and suddenly unable to afford it and suddenly realised it is a crazy world at the moment she knew she was pregnant. That would be stretching credulity further than it is usually stretched.

Not everyone has sex for the purpose of procreation. I don't know if this is something you are assuming they should be or if you are expecting that they should be otherwise they should avoid it all together? I say nonsense to both.

For one thing, it just is not realistic to expect that a person should go into sex assuming that they might have a child as a result. You have to think at the lowest common denominator type of mentality. You can't force this behavior onto people or expect it from them regardless of how logical or intelligent you might think it is to consider it. You just can't expect that. In fact I would go as far as to say, it is morally wrong to expect it from people.

You can defend the unborn fetus all you want, no one is stopping you from expressing your opinion about it. However; it is wrong to impose your choice onto others and expect them to adopt your position. If it is forced upon them dangerous things can occur that are just as bad if not worse than the problem you are trying to solve.

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@Krumple,

You mean 50 million abortions so you can avoid being bored?

I never noticed anything boring about the days before the pill and abortion. Things look far more boring for the young now than they did then. Promiscuity is seriously boring after a short period of time.

1 Reply

@Krumple,

Quote:

However; it is wrong to impose your choice onto others and expect them to adopt your position.

I'm in no position to impose any such things. I am simply making an argument. Where is the imposition? You're not taking any notice and neither is anybody else. Where's the imposition? Except in the argument and all you need do with that is declare it rubbish and that's the end of it. If it bothers you that's not my fault. The argument being imposing is what it is intended to be. And it is only in first gear.

Your arguments don't bother me. In fact they are silly on matters of principle. They are self-justifying.

1 Reply

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

You mean 50 million abortions so you can avoid being bored?

That is what you got from what I was saying? Seriously? Wow.

spendius wrote:

I never noticed anything boring about the days before the pill and abortion. Things look far more boring for the young now than they did then. Promiscuity is seriously boring after a short period of time.

It has nothing to do with filling boredom although some do use it for just that purpose. How you feel about sex is irrelevant to how everyone else feels about sex. Once again you can't impose your position onto everyone else and expect them to think of sex the same way you do.

You know I argue this with you, and I would personally never have an abortion but I understand that people should have the right to decide for themselves what is right for themselves. It shouldn't matter how I feel about what other's decide is right for them.

You can try to bend that how ever you want to twist it's consistency but when it comes right down to it, people should be allowed to do what they want when ever they want but pay the cost that is involved in doing what they want.

I don't think you even consider what happens to those children who get put up for adoption and fall through the cracks. They go searching for their parents when they get older to come to find out their parents were not allowed to have an abortion but didn't want to keep the child either. They didn't want the child.

Or even worse. What if you find out that you are the product of a rape? Your mother put you up for adoption because you were a painful reminder of a horrible experience? Of course probably the father couldn't care any less.

Does this mean they would have a horrible life? Maybe, maybe not but to be forced into such an existence, I wouldn't want that for myself. I wouldn't want that for anyone else either.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Quote:
However; it is wrong to impose your choice onto others and expect them to adopt your position.

I'm in no position to impose any such things. I am simply making an argument. Where is the imposition? You're not taking any notice and neither is anybody else. Where's the imposition? Except in the argument and all you need do with that is declare it rubbish and that's the end of it. If it bothers you that's not my fault. The argument being imposing is what it is intended to be. And it is only in first gear.

Your arguments don't bother me. In fact they are silly on matters of principle. They are self-justifying.

Sorry spend, it is a blanket statement. When I use the word "your" I am not specifically addressing you solely. I am referring to anyone who would impose their beliefs onto others and expect them to adopt them which also includes you if you find it necessary to do so.

1 Reply

@Krumple,

Oh yeah!!

1 Reply

Is this a specious argument for pro-abortion?

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