Are you left, right, or center?

Reply Tue 28 Aug, 2012 04:52 pm
The association of secularism and fundamentalism (for example) is purely the device of the person who created the test, who used these terms to describe what he/she sees as polar offisites in the respective categories. There is no objective merit or reality to these categorizations apart from the perceptions of the test creator. What you just noticed ("found interesting") is merely the opinion of the unknown test creator, and his credentials are not given.
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Reply Tue 28 Aug, 2012 04:56 pm
What does visionary mean (in this context?)..

or, anarchistic?

This is all an odd bowl of soup.

Past that, I gather the percentages are not relevant to where you stand on the whole but mean some other complicated thing that I don't get.
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Reply Tue 28 Aug, 2012 06:51 pm

Green parties vary from place to place. Some -perhaps the Australian one, certainly the German party- have moved to a more comprehensive array of subjects. Others don't.

Personally, I think the environment must be protected. I do worry about climate change, CO2 generation, deforestation and the general ripping of nature in the sake of "progress". Effective policies must be held, worldwide, to stop and reverse these phenomenae.

All this said, I disagree with the core of "green" activism.

"Green" activism is often used as a pretext for protectionism (uncompetititive farmers claim that imported tomato has too many toxines or is transgenic, uncompetitive fishing companies argue that too many dear little dolphins are killed while capturing tuna fish, etc).
All the claims I've read about about transgenic crops are unsubstantiated. They are based on fear and ideology. "There's no country without maize", say the Mexicans, and corn production drops and we have to import the basic staple from the US.
Same thing goes for nuclear power. Yes, we got Fukushima and Chernobyl: one froma a natural disaster, the other, from a societal disaster. Yes, eolic energy is a good alternative. So is solar energy. But, at the moment, being anti-nuclear for the hell of it comes only from some sort of Hiroshima bad conscience, IMHO. Thermoelectrical energy is more polluting, and hidroelectrical energy would be OK if only the new dams would not terribly affect the environment and way of living of the communities nearby.
Then there are the first world defenders of the status quo, who want the poorer countries (The Noble Savages) to remain in their underdevelopment for the sake of Mother Nature and the homeostasis of earth, while they gauge in their motorboats to stop whale killing.
And last, but not least, the so-called animal lovers. There was a question in the "European test" about eating meat: is being a vegetarian somehow leftist? I doubt it. Not to say those freaks who want to ban experiments on animals. They don't mind human step cells (I don't, either), but don't touch the rat or the ape. How many human lives have been saved by such experiments? How many illnesses have been cured?
And I don't really give a damn about the baby seals and their big eyes while they're whipped to death by Canadian hunters. If the seals were not cute and photogenic, very few people would care! Just imagine they were snakes. Then?
Reply Tue 28 Aug, 2012 07:09 pm
The U.S. is being cornified and soyeeed -- and those fields can't take the odd interloper who'd like a few acres. That's an exaggeration, but not all that much. Those fields are wrapped up re who can plant what on them. That bothers me greatly, especially when those fields are way-funded.

And they are patsie fields re the workings re monsanto.

I'm not actually against looking at genetics. I'm against making crops immune from round up and then spraying it all over the place, thus resulting in roundup immune mega plants/aka monster weeds. But genetics now is genetics then, what would work to pair, just different methods.

Alternately, I'd like the heritage vegetables I know about to get in the works. All distribution doesn't have to be long haul truck-jiggle-able.

I might disagree with fbaez re who gets to win this, but I won't assume that I disagree. I get his comments, though.
Reply Tue 28 Aug, 2012 08:27 pm
Thank you for your response, fbaezer.
Nothing worse than asking a person a question or two about something they've posted, then being ignored. Wink

I wish I had more time to respond right now, but I don't.

Green parties vary from place to place. Some -perhaps the Australian one, certainly the German party- have moved to a more comprehensive array of subjects. Others don't.

Yes, I'm sure they do. Which European Greens' policies (which countries) are those you you find least acceptable/objectionable? And how much influence do they actually have over the collective EU Greens movement in Europe? I ask, because I'm wondering if your objections are to certain fringe Greens positions, or to the broader thrust of the EU Greens policies.

I intend to do more reading on the subject. One aspect of this thread that I've really found really interesting & valuable is comparing political perspectives between our various countries. We should do more of it!
Also, I've been rather confused in the past with how definitions (like Libertarianism, Communism, left & right, etc, vary so much from country to country. It is very easy to misunderstand what people are actually saying, sometimes ....

I think that you & I might have quite different views on the benefits (or otherwise) of economic globalisation. How it has occurred, weighing up the short & long-term impacts & benefits. I'm thinking that your objections to particular European Greens policies may well stem from similar differences. On humanitarian & human rights concerns I suspect we'd be in pretty much same boat, politically.

As to whether whether animal rights are a legitimate "left" concern (I think that's what you're questioning?) : in some countries I understand they are. Particularly in the UK, according to my perceptions & reading. In my own country I believe that the elimination of cruelty toward animals (like using animals for laboratory testing for cosmetics companies, horrendous practices in abattoirs, or live animal exports by ship (for weeks) to o/seas markets), say nothing of real concerns about the survival of some threatened species) are real & perfectly legitimate concerns of some "leftist" groups, particularly the Greens ... but also from others across the political & non-political spectrum.

Anyway, I have to go.
Sorry this has had to be such a rushed response.
If you're interested (or anyone else is) , I'll post more later.
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Reply Tue 28 Aug, 2012 08:27 pm
I'd like to talk longer with FBaez in person. This is unlikely.
Which is why I must beat his socks off in fantasy football.
Reply Tue 28 Aug, 2012 09:02 pm
Also I get fb on freaks re animals.
Peta would have come after our labs. We took good care of our animals that gave us antisera; we gave one that was due to be crumped away to a friend of mine, naughty but he was a robustly healthy rabbit.

I surely hope that if you wish no work with animals happens in science labs that you are fine with ongoing autoimmune diseases.

I defended our lab from Reagan (he shut down the university, I went in to change the dialysis stuff). Empty f/g campus. I do mean empty, creepy empty.
I'd face Peta types.
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