34
   

Are you left, right, or center?

 
 
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 Aug, 2012 06:58 am
@msolga,
Jewish voters care a great deal about foreign policy as it relates to Israel but I seldom hear anyone discuss fp as an election topic.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 Aug, 2012 07:05 am
@JPB,
Due to Romney's ignorance of this subject, there's little to discuss - the US' foreign policy will change, if he gets elected. Or not. (Okay: re Israel it will change totally, he said.)
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Aug, 2012 07:09 am
@JPB,
Thanks JPB.
That really surprises me, given the ongoing "war against terror", increased use of drones, etc.



0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Aug, 2012 09:08 am
Drones are here to stay. It is an easy political choice to make. Less dead Americans. Headlines reading "Terrorists Killed." There is not as much free discussion of Israel as I would like, but passions are high and hysteria dominates. I try to vote my conscience, but it is not easy when both sides so often are wrong.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Aug, 2012 11:41 am
@msolga,
Yeah, but the foreigners don't vote. So, no, foreign policy doesn't play a major part in the election.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Aug, 2012 12:04 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Drones are here to stay. It is an easy political choice to make.


So true, Edgar. Americans really don't give a rat's ass about the numerous war crimes and the terrorism its governments relentlessly enage in.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Aug, 2012 07:28 pm
@Thomas,
True, true, Thomas.
Sad to say.
But US foreign policy can & does have such a huge impact on the lives of so many "foreigners", as the electors would know. So it seems strange to me that there is so little interest.
But I'm thinking along similar lines as edgar. It would probably make very little difference which party won this time.
The choice of party seemed so different, so clear, during during the 2008 campaign (remember Obama's Noble Peace Prize on winning office & his Cairo speech?) So much hope that things would be different. Sadly it's ended up being just more of the same. Probably worse.
Sigh.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 25 Aug, 2012 07:40 pm
@msolga,
Quote:
But US foreign policy can & does have such a huge impact on the lives of so many "foreigners", as the electors would know.


I think you are making a much much too big an assumption here [underlined portion], MsO.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Aug, 2012 07:44 pm
@JTT,
Check how I rated in the test, JTT.
That might partly explain some of my strange assumptions. Wink
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 25 Aug, 2012 07:52 pm
@msolga,
Quote:
That might partly explain some of my strange assumptions.


I know that when "the crimes of the U.S. throughout the world have been systematic, constant, clinical, remorseless, and fully documented", and most people still don't know about them, it must seem astounding that the citizens of the very country that is doing these things don't know, but that is the case, MsO.

There has never, ever been such a clever, successful propaganda system like that of the USA.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  7  
Reply Sat 25 Aug, 2012 08:34 pm
@msolga,
Obama's Nobel Prize was basically a bribe. They gave it to him for not being George Bush, and in the hope hat his foreign policy would be much different than George Bush's. And to be fair, Obama's foreign policy was different in that he didn't start any new wars. But to think he deserved the Nobel was silly. He hadn't actually done anything for peace at the time he won it.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Aug, 2012 08:58 pm
If I remember rightly, attitudes about the "war on terror", Afghanistan, Iraq, Guantanamo Bay, extraordinary rendition, etc, where much more in the forefront of voters' minds in the last election.
I'm thinking, in the 2008 campaign compared to 2012, that concerns about those aspects of US foreign policy would have influenced those voters more on the "left", or humanitarian spectrum of voters. Those who rated further "left" or "liberal" on the graph, I mean.
My perception (admittedly from a long way away from the US) was that those voters were looking for a clear alternative to the previous (Bush) administration.

That's why I asked fbaezer why there were no questions about foreign policy in the test he posted about the 2012 election. The questions were mostly about attitudes to domestic issues. I had assumed that concerns about the foreign policy issues I've mentioned would still influence the same "left" or "liberal" voters who were influence by them in 2008. So not including them at all in the questionnaire seemed a rather odd omission.

But perhaps Thomas is right. Perhaps there really isn't much interest in foreign policy in this US election? And that's why it was omitted. Or maybe voters' concerns have shifted to more economic concerns, especially domestic ones, since the global financial crisis?

I was also wondering if the definition (according to those tests) of what constitutes "left" or "liberal" attitudes might vary a fair bit from country to country? A committed "lefty" in my own country for example, would usually have quite strong attitudes toward the country's foreign policies & also world developments. But someone defined as left in Europe, Asia or the US might have quite different political priorities.

Anyway, just a few thoughts that have gone through my head since taking those two tests ... feel free to disagree, or see things differently.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Aug, 2012 09:23 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
Obama's Nobel Prize was basically a bribe. They gave it to him for not being George Bush, and in the hope hat his foreign policy would be much different than George Bush's. And to be fair, Obama's foreign policy was different in that he didn't start any new wars. But to think he deserved the Nobel was silly. He hadn't actually done anything for peace at the time he won it.

True, I think the received the peace prize for not being George Bush & in anticipation that he would act very differently to George Bush.
Do you think he actually has, particularly on foreign affairs issues?

I'm hoping this doesn't turn into a Democrats vs Republicans debate, because that's not what inspired me to post what I said , nor is it my interest ... lots of threads about the election here already. I'm more interested in the poltical definitions - what constitutes "left" & "right".

I was wondering ... did you read this Political Compass analysis of the two political party's positions?
Would you agree or disagree on their assessment? Particularly on human rights issues.

Quote:
http://www.politicalcompass.org/charts/us2012.php

This is a US election that defies logic and brings the nation closer towards a one-party state masquerading as a two-party state. .... <cont>

The US Presidential Election 2012:
http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2012

.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Aug, 2012 02:21 am
@msolga,
Oh my gosh ... I think I've just killed the thread! Surprised
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Aug, 2012 10:04 am
@msolga,
http://www.politicalcompass.org/charts/us2012.php

I do find it interesting that Obama and Romney are practically on top of each other but yet people here get annoyed when I say they are the same. Could there be any clearer indication that they are "the same" politically? Could they be any closer politically?
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Aug, 2012 12:00 pm
@msolga,
msolga wrote:
True, I think the received the peace prize for not being George Bush & in anticipation that he would act very differently to George Bush.
Do you think he actually has, particularly on foreign affairs issues?

I think the Obama administration has been marginally less destructive than the Bush administration, but not terribly much less.

msolga wrote:
I was wondering ... did you read this Political Compass analysis of the two political party's positions?

No, I didn't.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Aug, 2012 12:28 pm
I just took FB's political test.

<laughing>

The big YOU indicator is 1/4 inch from the left end, which is titled very liberal.
Gee, I thought I had answered two questions rather sort of conservatively. Overall, my political values are closest to Liberal Democrat, the schema says.

Ah, on economic issues, I'm 3/8 inch from the left end; on social issues, I'm at the very end, or a millimeter from it.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Aug, 2012 02:30 pm
@ossobuco,
I just took a "European" political test and that came out correctly:
Quote:
You are a Social Democrat. 12 percent of the test participators are in the same category and 21 percent are more extremist than you.

mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Aug, 2012 03:11 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I just took that same test, and here is what it said about me...

You are a democratic National Liberal. 3 percent of the test participators are in the same category and 81 percent are more extremist than you.

I have no idea what that means.
hingehead
 
  2  
Reply Sun 26 Aug, 2012 05:12 pm
@mysteryman,
Clearly you are a commie pinko MM. Hand yourself in now before bomb something, take drugs or join a workers' collective.

Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
 

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