Prostitution, or good sense?

I know, I was combining a response to you and ci.

Now, since you just said you don't know what your friends do when you're around......well, how can you say for sure that they're not?

You contradicted yourself in the same sentence.

Seriously, keep in mind I'm totally not made upset or anything at either you, ci, or anyone else here.....I'm, as has been pointed out, stating my thoughts.

Oh, and how did I get the thought that cj and ci were talking like their circle of friends would do this and such......?

Well....

I guess I'm too old now, and also ran around in the "wrong" circle of friends.

Count me in! I am out of the dating loop for a long time, and I have no idea what women do these days in order to get some spare change. Most of my friends are married, so we socialize in groups.

Yeah, I guess our social circle is a little unique in that all of us knew each other when we were all single. Even though I travel often without my wife, I don't "fool around" sexually with other friends or acquaintances. My wife has met many of the people I have traveled with over the years. When my wife joined me on the National Parks and Canyons tour last month, she met the Tour Director I had in Australia 15 years ago. One of the first people my wife met that I traveled with was many decades ago when I went to Egypt for the first time. I met a judge and law professor from Utah, and they have visited us twice to spend some time together. On one occasion, we took them to Napa Valley's wine country. There were others she has met such as McTag, Fiona, Walter, Ulla, and several others not members of a2k.

but, then, that was my interpretation....

This is what I wrote (without the first two comments).



If "I don't fool around sexually with other friends or acquaintances" is taken personally, that's something I can't control. I'm talking about "me."

Oh, I just threw all 3 comments together, yours and cj's because I didn't wanted to get into nested posts into nested posts into nested posts.

Like those threads where someone remembers 135 post before what someone said about what someone else said.

Believe me, I'm not that energetic after a days work to piece something all together.

take it or leave it, I'm not veering off into 3 times removed conversations.
This is just my down time conversing with virtual pals.

You mean taking money for food and movies in exchange for sex? They're
financially very independent, so why on earth would they need to prostitute themselves? This doesn't make sense.....

Now I wouldn't know if they're swingers or into kinky sex practices, how could I? I am not a fly on their wall, but these things don't interest me the least bit.

However, a woman who is asked out on a date and asks for the money instead, in my opinion, has a certain mindset to begin with, and I highly
doubt that I ever could be friends with a woman like that. Integrity is just about the highest attribute anyone can have, if they don't they're no friends of mine. It's as simple as that!

I don't get it: why are you throwing my statements and cicerone's statements into one post? Just because we agree on this subject matter doesn't mean our statements are the same, they're not! You can quote me and you can quote cicerone - all in one post, but don't make it look like we said the same thing.

read what my last post said....

I guess I could have made them different colors, but I didn't feel like it.

It's too bad you're not "reading our posts." You ignore everything we're trying to tell you about sponsorship and personal opinions - to no avail.

I'm reading my posts. I read what you wrote, and cj wrote. I read about your personal opionions. I don't know what you mean by telling me about sponsorship.

What does my reading an understanding what you wrote have to do with not wanting to go through the rigamarole of perfectly requoting what so and so said, when they know perfectly well what they said?

Does my wasting my time figuring out how to exactly separarate in various quotes what you said as opposed to what someone else said prove I read them both, and understood them or not?

No.

Your personal opinion was read, and understood, as I read cj's opinion and understood it.

I just didn't acknowledge it in the way you wanted me to I guess. My intent wasn't to offend, but to skip over what I thought unnecessary steps.

Guess I proved myself wrong.

Ok, as a final thought chai2, sexual promiscuity may seem to make good sense for some people, due to their social and personal motivations, however, it won't make any good sense when STD comes into the equation.

What do you call the person with aids and herpes?
An incurable romantic.

Take it easy now...

The reasons are many, but the main one being "you confuse the issue being discussed" by being too lazy. Misquoting people is not right.

Lots of interesting comments on this thread.

My take: Assuming the purpose of the date is a happy ending (which it may not be), then the guy is still buying something other than just sex and if the woman decides to offer sex for money then a) that is prostitution by definition and b) it is a bait and switch. By going the dating route rather than the outright buying it, the guy is trying to purchase socially acceptable sex, not just sex. Prostitution carries a stigma for both the prostitute and the john where dating does not. Many guys want to believe that they will never pay for it even though dinner and drinks can get expensive. They'd rather try and fail in dating than pay for it and fail in their self image. The dating route also offers companionship in a way that I imagine a straight business transaction would not. In the OP, it seems like the scenario is a) the date isn't going to work b) you can still get laid if you pay.

Several early posts also said we need to be even handed and say the man might be the one who asks for money. I can't see that as realistic. The supply of men willing to obilige a woman looking for a hook-up is greater (much greater?) than the other way around. I believe that a reasonably attractive woman could walk into a bar, ask a guy to come home with her and walk out accompanied inside of fifteen minutes, but not the other way around. As long as that supply and demand situation exists, the guys are going to find ways to up their stock and one way to do that is money.

So, I'm lazy.

Carry on.

Yeah good point eng.

I was thinking about that too, how many men I've heard say "I don't have to pay for it." Like that makes them better or something.

Some of the same guys don't mind misleading a lady in other ways, like indicating there's going to be a relationship, when there's not, leading women to believe they've got more money that they do (no, I'm not being a gold digger, I'm talking about the men who bring it up.) Side story, I once met a guy while I was working (sales) we talked for a bit and he asked me out on a date. Before I could answer (I was going to say sure) he made sure he told me he owned a porsche.
I said yes, not because of the porsche....not because I liked him that much either. It just seemed it would be nice to go on a date. Anyway, he shows up and wouldn't you know, porsche was in the shop. I went out with him one more time, maybe a month later....funny thing, he never said a word about owning a porsche. He might have picked up from the first date I wasn't interested in that, but I guess he used that as a standard line when asking anyone out....you had to have been there I guess. I didn't like him one way or another after the 2nd date either. Again, didn't stop me from going. I guess I just felt like going out, seeing what talking to someone new would be like.

One thing I've wondered about in this thread, from some comments made about "getting to know someone", "potential relationship" etc.....Hasn't anyone else ever dated just for the sake of going on a date? Not the "he's going to buy me something" thing, the just going somewhere, and as long as we're going somewhere together, it's a date. Not like with a friend you already know, a date.

One of the most carefree times I remember was the year or 2 between ending one serious relationship, and getting into another. In that in between time, I went on a lot of dates, a couple, sometimes a few a week. Seemed like there was always 2 or 3 guys that would ask me out, one would phase out, I'd meet another....they seemed to be doing the same thing. It wasn't shallow, I met a number of nice people. Some I slept with, some I didn't. It was a lot of fun.
Most of them were getting together for coffee and pie, or maybe a movie. Sometimes dinner.
I don't consider someone saying they are dating means this has to lead to something.

But whose choice is it to have as many partners as they like? Yours, or theirs?

My first husband had herpes. Had it years before I met him. I never got it.

Of course that's not saying I couldn't of, but reasonable, and not difficult care was taken, and I didn't.

I've never been with someone w/ AIDS, but from what I gather, the biggest cause is needles and UNprotected sex.

I might be wrong Val, but you seem to have issues with people making their own sexual choices, and assume that they don't take normal precautions when they do.
Some do, some don't.

Seems to me most unexpected pregnancies happen amongst women who are in the group that are just starting to have sex, and aren't experienced, and don't think ahead.
Re disease, and this again is my opinion, I think a person who likes to have sex with different people, and has been doing so for some time, like years, is more apt to be practicing safe sex.

I get the vibe that not just you, but others are just waiting for someone who chooses to have a number of partners to have something bad happen to them. Like it makes your choices better.

I'm fully aware that most prostitutes do not have a good life. I know why they get into it, the problems they have, the whole deal.
However, it's like people (the general use of people) react to bad things happening to a prostitute, even things that don't have anything to do with her work with the feeling of "well, what do you expect, she (just) a prostitute."

I know that a really awful job people, usually women do, is be a chambermaid at a hotel. I've heard from people who have done it some unbelieveably nasty stories, things I can comprehend someone would do, and leave for someone else to clean up, without even a tip. BTW, some of these nasty things done by "nice" families who have stayed a few days, doing things they would probably never think of doing in their homes.

But does anyone say "well, they're all drug addicts and had people mess with their heads/bodies during their childhoods. They don't think anything good about themselves, and think of themselves as objects, or how else would they be able to do what they do for (a small amount) of money."

No, they're looked as hardworking people.

Having sex with someone would be a piece of cake compared to what they have to deal with every day.

Maybe that is a personality thing. Or a "how you were raised" kind of thing. I think a lot of us are instilled with the idea that dating is a precursor to a relationship...and of course it is. But I think we tend to think there is a possibility. If I went out with a guy knowing it wasn't going to go any further - and I mean allowing him to buy me dinner or pay for our outing I would feel guilty. Generally if I went out with a guy as a friend, I would pay my own way and know nothing was going to come of it. But if I accepted a date - I was feeling it out to see if there was the possibility of something.

Otherwise, what's the point?

My poor husband knew me before I really thought of him romantically at all. We were friends. He saw the very unromantic side of me. I never tried to impress him. It was the best courtship ever. Now he is never surprised at who I really am or my behavior. Bless him. I had a tendency to dress things up when I went out with "potentials". He saw that too. Bless him.

I like the less pretentious way of dating. Though it was an accident.

That's a laugh (that's why I did).

My parents expected that the first male you spoke to for more than 5 minutes was supposed to end up being your husband.....and forever.

chai(imagine the disappointment I was)tea

Seriously, like if you went on one date, that was it.

To rephrase that mismi....how are you supposed to know if the relationship is going to go anywhere unless you date?

What's the point?

I don't know, what's the point of sitting under a tree reading a book? What's the sense in taking a nice walk on a cool Fall day?

As an aside, you can ask anyone who's ever known me, including my husband, and they'll all tell you I'm a very low maintenance chai.

Dating doesn't mean "buy me stuff", but I'll admit, it was nice getting coffee and pie. They both seemed all the stronger and sweeter because someone wanted to gift me with it.

sorry, one more thing....

What is someone supposed to do if they are not looking for a relationship?

Not experience what life has to offer? Cut oneself off from all possibility of spending some good time (note I didn't say "good times") with someone?

As I mentioned, in the year or 2 I did do dating, I was in between 2 serious relationships, and I just didn't feel the need during that time to be with, commit myself to someone.
There was a lot of changes going on in my life during that time, and I was very very happy. My happiness shined, other people saw it, and I'm sure that's why I got asked out quite a bit. What you project comes back to you.

When I'm in a relationship, I'm a one man woman. That shines out to the world too, so it's been very rare that a man has ever shown interest in me when I was committed to someone else.

Dating is fun. I got to do things I never would have had the opportunity to otherwise.

I remember one morning, a Sunday, the phone rang at like 6am and it was a guy I had met through friends a few days before. He said "Wanna go flying?"
I knew he had a little airplane, from converation earlier.

I said "sure!" and jumped up and was out the door in 10 minutes. Had a real good time. We flew up and down the Fort Lauderdale beach, over the apartment I lived at in Pompano, then went and had breakfast.

That was a good date.

I know for sure I didn't sleep with him, and he never asked me to.

Dating's just fun mismi.

I'd hate to think that someone who's decided they don't want to marry or be intensely involved with someone never goes on a date. That would be sad.

Really, Chai? I believe you. Eek.

(I come from a petting is a mortal sin and you could be in a car crash and go to hell background, most of that from one set of nuns so I won't yell at them all). Brainwashing comes in so many forms.

No wonder you are the you that you are, strong woman with strong opinions that are her own.