Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2005 10:55 am
I think it might have been Blatham who was telling us how much better life is in Europe than here in the states a day or two ago. He might want to explain that to the lady described in this article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/01/30/wgerm30.xml


'If you don't take a job as a prostitute, we can stop your benefits'
By Clare Chapman

A 25-year-old waitress who turned down a job providing "sexual services'' at a brothel in Berlin faces possible cuts to her unemployment benefit under laws introduced this year.

Prostitution was legalised in Germany just over two years ago and brothel owners - who must pay tax and employee health insurance - were granted access to official databases of jobseekers.

The waitress, an unemployed information technology professional, had said that she was willing to work in a bar at night and had worked in a cafe.

She received a letter from the job centre telling her that an employer was interested in her "profile'' and that she should ring them. Only on doing so did the woman, who has not been identified for legal reasons, realise that she was calling a brothel.

Under Germany's welfare reforms, any woman under 55 who has been out of work for more than a year can be forced to take an available job - including in the sex industry - or lose her unemployment benefit. Last month German unemployment rose for the 11th consecutive month to 4.5 million, taking the number out of work to its highest since reunification in 1990.

The government had considered making brothels an exception on moral grounds, but decided that it would be too difficult to distinguish them from bars. As a result, job centres must treat employers looking for a prostitute in the same way as those looking for a dental nurse.

When the waitress looked into suing the job centre, she found out that it had not broken the law. Job centres that refuse to penalise people who turn down a job by cutting their benefits face legal action from the potential employer.

"There is now nothing in the law to stop women from being sent into the sex industry," said Merchthild Garweg, a lawyer from Hamburg who specialises in such cases. "The new regulations say that working in the sex industry is not immoral any more, and so jobs cannot be turned down without a risk to benefits."

Miss Garweg said that women who had worked in call centres had been offered jobs on telephone sex lines. At one job centre in the city of Gotha, a 23-year-old woman was told that she had to attend an interview as a "nude model", and should report back on the meeting. Employers in the sex industry can also advertise in job centres, a move that came into force this month. A job centre that refuses to accept the advertisement can be sued.

Tatiana Ulyanova, who owns a brothel in central Berlin, has been searching the online database of her local job centre for recruits.

"Why shouldn't I look for employees through the job centre when I pay my taxes just like anybody else?" said Miss Ulyanova.

Ulrich Kueperkoch wanted to open a brothel in Goerlitz, in former East Germany, but his local job centre withdrew his advertisement for 12 prostitutes, saying it would be impossible to find them.

Mr Kueperkoch said that he was confident of demand for a brothel in the area and planned to take a claim for compensation to the highest court. Prostitution was legalised in Germany in 2002 because the government believed that this would help to combat trafficking in women and cut links to organised crime.

Miss Garweg believes that pressure on job centres to meet employment targets will soon result in them using their powers to cut the benefits of women who refuse jobs providing sexual services.

"They are already prepared to push women into jobs related to sexual services, but which don't count as prostitution,'' she said.

"Now that prostitution is no longer considered by the law to be immoral, there is really nothing but the goodwill of the job centres to stop them from pushing women into jobs they don't want to do."
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 7,554 • Replies: 83
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woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2005 11:22 am
Welfare to work is a wonderful concept.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2005 11:27 am
woiyo wrote:
Welfare to work is a wonderful concept.


Somebody in the picture is doing something wrong, and it ain't the girl; it's the people running Germany.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2005 11:40 am
gungasnake wrote:
Prostitution was legalised in Germany just over two years ago and brothel owners - who must pay tax and employee health insurance - were granted access to official databases of jobseekers.


Prostition is legal in Germany since ... well, in newer times since after the war.

In 2001 (and not two years ago, as the article says) prostitution was as a profession by a law ((Gesetz zur Regelung der Rechtsverhältnisse der Prostitution - ProstG vom 20. Dezember 2001; BGBl. I S. 3983 = Law about the legal relationship of Prostitution, December 20, 2001 - page 3983 in the Federal Law Gazetter I).

Thus, since January1, 2002, prostitutes can join the compulsory health insurance system.


gungasnake wrote:
Under Germany's welfare reforms, any woman under 55 who has been out of work for more than a year can be forced to take an available job - including in the sex industry - or lose her unemployment benefit.


Women can't retire normally before the age of 60 (and only under specific circumstances). So, mentioning the age of "55" is made up out of thin air.

No person - neither male or female - gets unemployment benefits in Germany, if he/she is out of work for more than a year. (Exactly this is the fact, which was heavily discussed and critised before those new welfare laws were put in force this year.)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2005 11:50 am
Nevertheless:

these laws, we have got now, have been opposed at first fiercely by the conservatives: they wanted them to be even harder.

The mentioned laywer Merchthild Garweg is one of those ultra-left lawyers, the conservative Minister of Justice of Hamburg tries to get out of the Bar Association.
0 Replies
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2005 12:02 pm
Of course, gungasnake, in the U.S., we have no prostitution. Or we do, but our system makes sure they eke out a poor and dangerous existence.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2005 12:04 pm
The difference is, far as I know, there's no legal way to force anybody into prostitution in the US.
0 Replies
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2005 12:07 pm
Just a lot of illegal ways...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2005 12:12 pm
The quoted article from The Tegraph is a very badly done translation/summary/opinion on an article, published by the alternative/left dayly newspaper TAZ (local issue Hamburg) No. 7543 of December 18, 2004.

The main passages, namely the answers by the (now called "Agency for Labour", then:) 'Labour Office' are left out.

The author left out as well that all this was that 'in conjunctive', meaning "this could happen in the worst case".
Even that was negated in the original article by officials.


Besides, since January 1, 2005, the regulatory statutes to these laws definately say that such is impossible ("no one can forced to do a job against his religious, moral [...etc.] feelings").
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2005 12:14 pm
gungasnake wrote:
The difference is, far as I know, there's no legal way to force anybody into prostitution in the US.


As far as I know, there's no country where this can done legally.

Another interesting aside: if this really was happening or could happen in Germany, it would be against a couple of EU-laws, treaties, the European Convention of Human Rights etc etc.

I wonder, why no-one noticed this at The Telegraph .... before today.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2005 12:16 pm
Oh, and since this was re-published by FreeRepublic: I wonder, why no-one there noticed that they were taking here a far-left position.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2005 12:22 pm
D'artagnan wrote:
Just a lot of illegal ways...


This is about prostitution in Germany. We all know you hate America, but can we keep the thread on track?
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2005 12:24 pm
McGentrix wrote:
D'artagnan wrote:
Just a lot of illegal ways...


This is about prostitution in Germany. We all know you hate America, but can we keep the thread on track?


This is about prostitution in Germany. We all know you live to attempt to bully anyone you think is on the left but can we keep the thread on track?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2005 12:26 pm
gungasnake wrote:
The difference is, far as I know, there's no legal way to force anybody into prostitution in the US.


Forcing someone to prostitution, btw, is punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine according to § 181a of the Federal Criminal Code.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2005 12:28 pm
What this is really about is Blatham having claimed that Europeans lived a great deal better than Americans.

Man doesn't live by bread alone. Some aspects of poverty are spiritual; you can be poor and still not force unemployed women into prostitution.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2005 12:29 pm
McGentrix wrote:
This is about prostitution in Germany.


At least the quoted article is not about prostitution in Germany but about our welfare system.

But nevertheless: both, the informations about prostitution as well as about the welfare system are wrong.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2005 12:30 pm
gungasnake wrote:
you can be poor and still not force unemployed women into prostitution.


You can here in Germany, but get punished for that: see above.

Laws in other European countries are similar - as a search will prove.
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2005 12:31 pm
gungasnake wrote:
What this is really about is Blatham having claimed that Europeans lived a great deal better than Americans.

Man doesn't live by bread alone. Some aspects of poverty are spiritual; you can be poor and still not force unemployed women into prostitution.


So you agree that no aspect of this thread is about who hates America and who doesn't correct? So we can stay on track correc? Very Happy
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2005 12:32 pm
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
D'artagnan wrote:
Just a lot of illegal ways...


This is about prostitution in Germany. We all know you hate America, but can we keep the thread on track?


This is about prostitution in Germany. We all know you live to attempt to bully anyone you think is on the left but can we keep the thread on track?


Rolling Eyes

From what I gather, prostitution is legal, but pimping and owning a brothel is not?

What do the streetwalkers use for protection? Are there designated Red-light areas like Amsterdam has?
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2005 12:36 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
The quoted article from The Tegraph is a very badly done translation/summary/opinion on an article, published by the alternative/left dayly newspaper TAZ (local issue Hamburg) No. 7543 of December 18, 2004.

Do you have a link, Walter?
0 Replies
 
 

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