16
   

Prostitution, or good sense?

 
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Jun, 2012 07:35 pm
@Val Killmore,
Val, I think it's doing a disservice to men assuming the only one's who'd go for that would be the desperate, or players.

Actually wouldn't a player not go for this, as his intention is to be seen with the woman, so everyone knows what he's getting?

Seems to me many people (just my opinion) are putting much more into this than I said. Putting in the romance, hurt feelings, desperation, mercenary, etc. etc.

Which is fine, I'm learning what each persons hot buttons are.

mismi, I'm not getting it when in the same breath you say "not a career" and "putting up shop"
My intent was not that someone say "I'm not going to bother to meet anyone I could have a relationship with, and I'm going to make it a habit to have sex with this guy on an ongoing, regular basis.

Maybe it would only happen once, twice with one person.

Just doesn't make sense to me if 2 people were planning on having recreational sex, and one of them had already earmarked money to be spent on the venture, that he shouldn't be given the opportunity to go ahead and spend it. Just perhaps not in the way originally intended.

If one was ready to spend, how is it right that suddenly that person get to have sex, AND get's to keep all the money, and the other person only gets the sex part.
What if they split the money that would have been spent?

I also don't see this as being a man eater. To me that's someone who wants to pretend she's not prostituting herself, under the guise that she's getting "gifts"

Val, you only ever gone on a date with someone that you already knew you had a potential future with?
You've never been on a date that at the end of the evening you know you won't be going out again?

Come on. Really?

My husband and I knew this woman who was close to 70 when we met her. This was close to 20 years ago. She had been married a whole mess of times, like 7 or 8.
She told us that "in her day" a lady didn't have sex with a man unless she was in love with him, and had the intent to marry him.

So, she continued "I made sure I fell in love right away." Cool

Val Killmore
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Jun, 2012 07:45 pm
@chai2,
Quote:
Val, you only ever gone on a date with someone that you already knew you had a potential future with?

Ok in high school, it was for popularity, which didn't involve sex, so does it count...
In college, I intentionally did not date for the sake of keeping well in my studies (to end it in 3 years really by taking max credits that the school would allow).
During graduate school, well, I met the man eater I was talking about, and that really didn't suit well with me...
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Jun, 2012 07:59 pm
@Val Killmore,
So you have gone out with people that you knew weren't going to lead to a long term relationship.
Thanks.

I'd like to mention one other thing regarding the idea that only someone "desperate" would see a prostitute, among some other nefarious reasons.

I too went to college.
The man I mentioned before, that I lived with, went to school there too.
He had a close friend, Jerry, another student, who was severly disabled. He couldn't walk, his statue was quite small, and grotesquely contorted. He couldn't even, too put it bluntly, reach behind him to wipe his own ass. Imagine living your life totally at the mercy of someone else being around, or remembering that you too have to take a dump. This way way before cell phones, pinging, tweeting or any of that.
He also couldn't move his hand to his own mouth to feed himself, because of how his bones were fused. He couldn't help it, but a lot of the time he stunk to high heaven. He smoked a lot of weed, and took a lot of pills. He was a good guy, but really, who could blame him.

Jerry had the same desires as any other man, but he couldn't even grab his own dick to take care of his own needs.
How many women do you think wanted to sincerely get close to this person?

If it wasn't for 2 particular prostitutes that came by, didn't mind what he looked like, or what was wrong with him, he would never have had a woman.

He wasn't desperate, he knew this is what he was going to get.
He respected the hell out of both those ladies, and the rest of us did too.
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Jun, 2012 08:18 pm
@chai2,
Quote:
He also couldn't move his hand to his own mouth to feed himself, because of how his bones were fused.


Quote:
He smoked a lot of weed, and took a lot of pills

Really? And just how did this man who could not, according to you, move his hand to his mouth to eat, manage to get the joint to his mouth to smoke it?
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Jun, 2012 09:15 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:
Since the transaction is what we're comparing, the difference is huge. One transaction increases the total supply of the desired good (or service, whatever you want to call it). Foregoing the transaction (because no money changes hands) would make both participants worse off.

That's only if both sides are willing to enter into that transaction in the first place. You're begging the question.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Jun, 2012 09:23 pm
@joefromchicago,
Quote:
That's only if both sides are willing to enter into that transaction in the first place


In Chai's OP she envisions the woman massively changing the terms of the transaction mid transction. Figures that it is a woman who figures that this is no problem, so long as it is men who are at the other end.....
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Sun 10 Jun, 2012 09:43 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:
C'mon, I saw you two at a lunch in Chicago.. I guess it wasn't a deli though.

No, that was at a place where they served Chicago-style quiche, a dish Chicagoans stubbornly insist on misnaming "Chicago-style pizza". Although I like quiche very much, I'd prefer sex if I had to pick just one. But now that joefromchicago has made such a strong case, I must get a taste of Chicago-style sandwiches.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  6  
Reply Sun 10 Jun, 2012 09:50 pm
If a woman freely chooses to sell her body, I'm OK with it.

The farce of this thread is the notion that prostitutes engage in their profession on the basis of free choice.

joefromchicago
 
  3  
Reply Sun 10 Jun, 2012 11:46 pm
@Thomas,
Anyone who would prefer sex over a pastrami sandwich in all cases either hasn't had a lot of experience with sex or a lot experience with pastrami sandwiches.
chai2
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2012 04:18 am
@Sturgis,
Sturgis wrote:

Quote:
He also couldn't move his hand to his own mouth to feed himself, because of how his bones were fused.


Quote:
He smoked a lot of weed, and took a lot of pills

Really? And just how did this man who could not, according to you, move his hand to his mouth to eat, manage to get the joint to his mouth to smoke it?



He had a bong. A big ass bong. He had someone else light it, and he could get his hand over the hole.

As for the pills, which you didn't even ask about, he'd knock them out of the bottle, push them to the edge of his desk, and do whatever he could to get them in his mouth. Then, for liquid to swallow them, he'd use his glass, that someone else kept filled, that had a straw that was about a foot and a half long sticking out of it, to drink.

In case you were wondering, since he couldn't grab his dick, he wore a Texas catheter, that fit over his penis like a condom, which drained into a bag on his leg, which someone else had to empty.

http://locostcdn.shopvisible.com/getDynamicImage.aspx?path=Covidien-Texas-Catheter249.jpg&w=300&h=300

Any other questions?
I have no idea why you would think I would be lying about someone who had extreme disabilities like this.

putz.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2012 04:33 am
My brother used a Texas catheter. He had a leg bag, of course, and a bed bag. When we were out partying, he'd just roll his wheelchair into an alley, or somewhere else out of sight, and empty his leg bag, just as a guy would go take a piss. No problem, really.
0 Replies
 
mismi
 
  3  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2012 05:55 am
@chai2,
Quote:
mismi, I'm not getting it when in the same breath you say "not a career" and "putting up shop"
My intent was not that someone say "I'm not going to bother to meet anyone I could have a relationship with, and I'm going to make it a habit to have sex with this guy on an ongoing, regular basis


Seems to me if you get paid for something it is a business. Even if it is just a small one on the side. I can't seem to seperate "working girls get paid to do it" and the occasional one night stand. Seems to me if you offer sex for money...it is prostitution. I am making no judgement.
Sturgis
 
  3  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2012 08:16 am
@chai2,
Quote:
He had a bong. A big ass bong. He had someone else light it, and he could get his hand over the hole.
Okay.
Quote:
As for the pills, which you didn't even ask about, he'd knock them out of the bottle, push them to the edge of his desk, and do whatever he could to get them in his mouth. Then, for liquid to swallow them, he'd use his glass, that someone else kept filled, that had a straw that was about a foot and a half long sticking out of it, to drink.

I wasn't really interested in how he took the pills. I asked about the smoking pot because that takes a fair amount of dexterity and back and forth motion. A pill or a few pills can be more or less taken off a table with just the mouth and even swallowed without liquid.

Quote:
In case you were wondering, since he couldn't grab his dick, he wore a Texas catheter, that fit over his penis like a condom, which drained into a bag on his leg, which someone else had to empty.


No, I really wasn't wondering. You had already indicated he needed assistance for various things so this really wasn't a concern or for that matter an interest; but, thanks anyway.

Quote:
Any other questions?

A million; however they aren't related to this thread topic.

Quote:
I have no idea why you would think I would be lying about someone who had extreme disabilities like this.

I didn't say you were lying. I asked HOW he could smoke the joint if he was unable to feed himself. You could have easily answered in a civil manner.
However:
Quote:
putz.

^^^^Instead you chose your usual method which you employ when anyone asks a question you don't like.^^^^


Perhaps for your future threads you might want to supply us with a list of things we are allowed to ask.

All I had wanted to know was how he was able to smoke anything if he was unable to feed himself. I did not wonder about the pills, nor did I wonder if he had a catheter or what type. Additionally I am not inquiring about how he combs his hair or brushes his teeth or gets in and out of bed or if he uses any respiratory devices or anything else.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2012 12:21 pm
And just how did this man who could not, according to you, move his hand to his mouth to eat, manage to get the joint to his mouth to smoke it?

Your above prhasing does not indicate a level of disbelief? "according to me"?

"and just how"?

double putz.

You couldn't figure out how the guy could smoke, knowing a joint is not the only way to smoke?
Give me a break.

You have a million questions, but not related to this thread? Why stop now, you already asked one that has nothing to do with it.

Use your head.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2012 12:34 pm
@joefromchicago,
Let's face it; there are many men and women who just doesn't care for sex, and even then their needs may vary by big numbers daily, weekly, monthy or even yearly. Mr. Green

I say, to each their own under any circumstance.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  4  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2012 03:22 pm
@chai2,
Quote:
Realizing the guy, in the normal scheme of things would be dropping a good amount of money on a first date for dinner/movie/clubbing whatever else, why not just agree "Give me that money, we'll have good sex and we both have benefited."


I think if a woman is truly inclined to act this way, she would succeed to a certain extend if she's a knock0ut, however, I'd almost guarantee she would feel pretty bad the next morning. Having sex with a stranger without any "foreplay" so to speak, is pretty much prostitution.

Going out with a potential mate, having a bite to eat, do small talk and maybe flirt with him, will at least give you the chance to get to know the person and vice versa; it sets a precursor for what will happen next.
Either way, you've had a good meal, good company and feel good about yourself, no matter what the outcome of the night. That's what social
interaction is all about, just taking the money IS indeed prostitution in my book.

Not that there is anything wrong with prostitution, not at all, it should be settled before going on that "date" though.
ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2012 04:17 pm
@mismi,
mismi wrote:
Seems to me if you offer sex for money...it is prostitution.


yup - that's what the law calls it here
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2012 04:49 pm
@CalamityJane,
CalamityJane wrote:

Quote:
Realizing the guy, in the normal scheme of things would be dropping a good amount of money on a first date for dinner/movie/clubbing whatever else, why not just agree "Give me that money, we'll have good sex and we both have benefited."


I think if a woman is truly inclined to act this way, she would succeed to a certain extend if she's a knock0ut, however, I'd almost guarantee she would feel pretty bad the next morning. Having sex with a stranger without any "foreplay" so to speak, is pretty much prostitution.

Going out with a potential mate, having a bite to eat, do small talk and maybe flirt with him, will at least give you the chance to get to know the person and vice versa; it sets a precursor for what will happen next.
Either way, you've had a good meal, good company and feel good about yourself, no matter what the outcome of the night. That's what social
interaction is all about, just taking the money IS indeed prostitution in my book.

Not that there is anything wrong with prostitution, not at all, it should be settled before going on that "date" though.



First, let me say this to ehBeth, mismi, or anyone else who has brought it up.

Yeah, it's prostitutution. So what?

What's wrong intrinsically with being a prostitute? Take out the the well known occupational hazards of today, drug addiction, abusive pimps, and what in the world is wrong with selling sex? Why should someone feel shamed if that's what they do, they don't take drugs, work for themselves or with a group where abuse isn't taking place

Why is there this feeling that the answer should be "Oh it's not really prostitution, because...." Or "yeah, I guess it's prostitution, but only because...."

Yes, it's prostitution. If I were given only 2 choices in life, I'd much prefer to be an honest prostitute who gives good value for the money, then let's say Madoff. But we are all given more than 2 choices, and I'm not going to say one is less worthy than another one.

Anyway, to address cj....I think you're really selling women, and men short. Why would a woman have to be a "knockout" in my scenerio, and why would he have to be a stranger?

What? only knockouts know how to have good sex? A man would be thinking ahead of having sex with his "unknockout" date, and would be willing to shell out money for a shrimp dinner, but wouldn't give her the same money if he didn't get to pay for and eat food that he perhaps didn't want anyway, and was just using it to get to the more pleasurable act of sex.

See, this makes no sense to me.
I'm willing to pay for your dinner, even though we don't have much in common, nothing much to talk about, but I'll spend hours with you pretending.
She's thinking "I'd like to have sex with this guy, but I can't do it unless I spend hours having a so so time, watching a movie I could rent, but I've got to go through this to get to the end.

I don't think 2 people wanting to simply have sex with the other makes either of them amoral, bad, not worthy.

What if you don't want to get to know each other beyond the basics of "I feel safe with you. You're attractive to me. What if you don't want a good meal, small talk, and don't want to flirt?

If you don't, you have to just be alone? Lot's of people get together for casual sex, and money doesn't pass hands.
If that was the initial agreement, that's swell.

I totally don't get why one person gets to have (his) cake and eat it too. When it would be equitable to at least split the money saved.

I seriously don't see the difference between this and someone mentioning to you "I've got this housekeeper that cleans really well, but it's such a pain that I have to make sure she's available when I need her, because my schedule changes, I can't (for whatever reason) leave her a key, and she when I get home she's supposedly leaving, but wants to chat for like an hour even after I paid her. She's nice enough but we don't have much to talk about.
You wouldn't expect the friend to say "I'll clean your house just as well, and you don't have to pay me a dime"

Hell no, the friend would say "Why not pay me instead? I'll do the same job, and you won't have to do that other stuff, because I have a key, and you won't even see me."

Why should the person feel bad in the morning cj? Because she had the sex she was going to have anyway?

She didn't do anything wrong, just had sex.
Sometimes, sex is just sex. Why this pretending?


CalamityJane
 
  3  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2012 05:17 pm
@chai2,
As I said, if the cards are laid open and both parties realize that one is paying for sex and the other realizes she's a prostitute, no harm done.

Yes, good sex is not defined by looks, age or gender - I never said anything about bad sex anyways Smile

As to how the women feels selling herself for an apple and an egg, I don't know, we only can say how we individually feel and I personally would feel lousy and I personally could never imagine entering such a scenario selling
myself short.

Yes, sex is sex and sometimes that's all you want from your date, but
why get money involved? Why cheapen the entire encounter? I could
not bring myself to do so (ask for money), so therefore I don't understand the reasoning behind it unless you're a prostitute.

It's the same with being only a bit pregnant - it doesn't work! You are either selling yourself or you aren't!

0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jun, 2012 05:21 pm
@Thomas,
Made me laugh, you did.

I'm following along in a schmear of confusion. I'm well acquainted with probably outdated dating mores, though, even there, I've semi absorbed that dating itself is passe to the max. Which I'm not sure I believe, maybe and maybe not.

One of my good points (to an extent) and one of my abject failures are the same, I've never cared about money, honey. So even the initial question is a huh to me.
0 Replies
 
 

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