And he too is a Chicken Hawk.

@Ceili,

Ceili wrote:

Racist? I only said that in my opinion I do not care for the Catholic Church as an organization that does not subscribe to as WASP America does. How is that racist?

Mind explaining WTF American Exceptionalism is. Because if you subscribe to it or you somehow think you are a shining example of it, the USA has very low standards.
[/quote]

In my opinion American Exceptionalism is a belief that America is not a cheap knock-off of Europe. Meaning that for two millenia European countries reflected insiders and outsiders. Insiders were those people descended from the pagan Germanic/Scandanavian/Celtic tribes that plotzed on different parts of Europe, and eventually became Christianized. And the outsiders were those that did not have that pedigree: Jews, Gypsies, etc.

Much of that thinking, I believe, was part of feudalism.

Regardless, here is a more specific view, even though I believe it is still quite accepted by many, especially in the Protestant community.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Exceptionalism

If one thinks about it, the message of the Catholic Church is antithetical to some of this belief (that the US has a mission from God). That is why I see a big schism in the US between Catholics and Protestants, just under the surface. Sort of like the anti-Semitism that was just under the surface in Germany, and it took a hyper-inflation in post WWI Germany to have fertile soil for it to come to the surface. But what do I know.

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@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

Foofie wrote:
an organization that does not subscribe to American Exceptionalism, as WASP America does. How is that racist?

do you know who/what the Saxons are?

Yes. What is your oblique point?

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@Foofie,

Your nice WASPs kept jews out of office, off the golf courses, country clubs. These are the same people who expelled jews from England, and they laughed at Shylock's fate. You realize Germans are saxons and that Ireland is on the other side of England. If they were using Irish lights to find England, they were more geographically challenged than you. They bombed Dublin, where the biggest Jewish population in Ireland lived.
The Celtic languages are derived from the same language as Hebrew. We fought long and hard to be separate and we don't need an ignoramus telling us what we are or should be.

1 Reply

@Ceili,

Ceili wrote:

Your nice WASPs kept jews out of office, off the golf courses, country clubs. These are the same people who expelled jews from England, and they laughed at Shylock's fate. You realize Germans are saxons and that Ireland is on the other side of England. If they were using Irish lights to find England, they were more geographically challenged than you. They bombed Dublin, where the biggest Jewish population in Ireland lived.
The Celtic languages are derived from the same language as Hebrew. We fought long and hard to be separate and we don't need an ignoramus telling us what we are or should be.

Are you trying to tell me that Celts are one of the Ten Lost Tribes? I think that has been discounted as a nice story.

If I am an "ignoramus" that has nothing to do with my discomfort with the world-wide Catholic Church. And, I have no antagonisms towards the Irish. I tend to avoid them, since they are steeped in their culture/church/love of the old sod. Let them live and be well, but their "story" is not my story. So, why must I have affection for a people that live in their world, which is very different than mine?

By the way, I was told by an Irish-American that it took a Jew (Leon Uris) to write Trinity. So, you can give him a red lollipop, while I get week old popcorn.

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Quote:

It is that parochial thinking that allows me to see the world for what it is.

No, Foofie, that is simply your paranoia shining through.

0 Replies

I didn't ask for affection. I didn't claim we were the lost tribe. Jesus, you seem to have a problem with reading. I implied you should get your facts straight. Or at shut-up unless you want to prove yourself the fool you seem to be.
Perhaps you should stop relying on innuendo and rumours. I'm well aware Leon Uris wrote Trinity. I read the book and his name of the dust cover. Try it.. you'll be amazed what you can learn.

1 Reply

@Ceili,

Ceili wrote:

I didn't ask for affection. I didn't claim we were the lost tribe. Jesus, you seem to have a problem with reading. I implied you should get your facts straight. Or at shut-up unless you want to prove yourself the fool you seem to be.
Perhaps you should stop relying on innuendo and rumours. I'm well aware Leon Uris wrote Trinity. I read the book and his name of the dust cover. Try it.. you'll be amazed what you can learn.

I thought you were Canadian? How did you become Irish? Don't tell me you think your genome gives you a nationality? My being Jewish has nothing to do with my nationality of American. Jewishness is not even a genome, since Jews from all over the world have genomes that are different, at least on the maternal side (the paternal side often goes back to the Middle East, but that could pre-date Hebrews).

I am not sure what you are trying to point out, other than not being comfortable with my opinions?

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

my opinions?

getting facts wrong is an opinion?

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

Foofie wrote:
my opinions?

getting facts wrong is an opinion?

Yes. My opinion might be giving credence to facts that other people consider incorrect. That's why some people in the US believe in The Rapture; others consider it incorrect. The US allows people to have their opinions, based on facts they choose to give credence to. We do not have to march lock-step in the US.

2 Replies

@Foofie,

When you ignore facts, you look stupid. Or maybe you just are stupid.

Mexico is not part of the U.S. but you wanted to argue that it was because it fit your opinion better. You are certainly free to have an opinion that Mexico is part of the U.S. but then you have to understand that people will laugh at you and not take anything you say seriously.

2 Replies

@parados,

he does call himself foofie...

0 Replies

@Foofie,

Quote:

We do not have to march lock-step in the US.

If that's true, Foofie, how do so many presidents get so many people supporting them in their terrorism and war crimes?

Remember this?

"Either you are with us [bald faced liars] or you are with the terrorists".

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I think my favorite (wink wink) part of this thread so far is the part where Foofie suggests a lack of legitimate American Patriotism (and even legitimate Blackness!) because of Obama not having ancestors who were slaves on US soil.

The combination of the otherworldly level of arrogance it must take to consider oneself a steward of "American Exceptionalism" (whatever the **** that really is) and the abysmal ignorance evident in mocking the legitimacy of someone's expericnce as a black man is breathtaking (or maybe more accurately, asphyxiating) in its effect.

Foofie is a fool of galactic proportion.

3 Replies

@snood,

The same people who question Obama's legitimacy for the most part would likely vote for Arnold Schwarzenegger if he found some way onto a ballot.

0 Replies

@snood,

Quote:

"American Exceptionalism" (whatever the **** that really is)

It's part of the huge propaganda stream that has allowed the US to butcher millions, practice state terrorism, all the while deceiving people into thinking that the US does these criminal acts to save the oppressed.

But you, of course, know that is complete crap, doncha, Snood?

0 Replies

@parados,

parados wrote:

When you ignore facts, you look stupid. Or maybe you just are stupid.

Mexico is not part of the U.S. but you wanted to argue that it was because it fit your opinion better. You are certainly free to have an opinion that Mexico is part of the U.S. but then you have to understand that people will laugh at you and not take anything you say seriously.

Well, then it won't be any difference than if I tell a person, that has religious beliefs, that we don't have a soul, or that there is no Supreme Being that watches over us.

Perhaps, my opinions, that clash with current facts, are not opinions for the 21st century. I may be expressing opinions of the 23rd century?

Now that is not stupid, just not of the mindset of many people.

Thank you for showing concern for my image.

0 Replies

@snood,

snood wrote:

I think my favorite (wink wink) part of this thread so far is the part where Foofie suggests a lack of legitimate American Patriotism (and even legitimate Blackness!) because of Obama not having ancestors who were slaves on US soil.

The combination of the otherworldly level of arrogance it must take to consider oneself a steward of "American Exceptionalism" (whatever the **** that really is) and the abysmal ignorance evident in mocking the legitimacy of someone's expericnce as a black man is breathtaking (or maybe more accurately, asphyxiating) in its effect.

Foofie is a fool of galactic proportion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Exceptionalism

President Obama's patriotism is not questioned. I am just saying that in my belief of American Exceptionalism, it might just be more appropriate to have an African-American President that the voting public can BE SURE has the emotional experience of other African-Americans that had family that suffered under slavery, then the Jim Crow South, and perhaps the northern urban ghetto. Sort of like having to listen to a Jew whose family was safely in America during WWII at a conference for Holocaust Survivors. Get it? His experience as an American Black man was not what has been the standard understanding of what African-Americans experienced and SUFFERED.

So, in my opinion (not yours perhaps), our President is like a generic version of some grocery item, rather than the name brand version. Many people pay extra for the name brand item, since it comes with the reputation of the brand name. So, again in my opinion, if I was a Black person, voting for a Black president, I would want a Black candidate that could relate on an EMOTIONAL LEVEL with my own family's experience under slavery, the Jim Crow South, and perhaps the northern ghetto experience. Word? (Actually in my opinion, Word up!)

Also, I do not consider myself a fool of galactic proportions. I consider myself a Foofie of galactic proportions. Meaning, my insights are of galactic proportions.

To put my analogy in another light, having our President as the first Black candidate was a bit like the story of the "pig in a poke." The buyer thought he was buying a pig in the poke (bag); however, it was a squirrel, or something else. Meaning, in my opinion, the American Black voting public was correct when in 2008 some asked whether Obama was "Black enough?" Perhaps, he was not, since his family never suffered under slavery, nor the Jim Crow South, nor the Black northern urban ghetto experience. It might come down to saying, let's be real.

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

@Ceili, ... By the way, I was told by an Irish-American that it took a Jew (Leon Uris) to write Trinity. So, you can give him a red lollipop, while I get week old popcorn.

Lollipops again? Confused

http://able2know.org/topic/125076-45

Here's enough for everyone (including you, Foofie Smile

).

http://charlottesfancy.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/cherry-lollipops.jpg

Foofie, you won't have to eat week-old popcorn after all. Smile

0 Replies

@Foofie,

With all due respect, Foofie, although I have to say that it's difficult to respect someone who names himself 'Foofie' on purpose, you ought not try to surmise what black people think or feel.
You haven't a clue.
I say that having read what you just wrote. You don't have any connection to what the present black experience, for lack of better term, is.

I will tell you, from being with my friends and neighbors, from being with the artists and the actors, the singers and dancers in this great city of New York, their focus is not on the tribulations and horror of the pre-Civil War, nor are they particularly keyed into the struggle for Civil Rights of the 20th Century .

(They shake their heads in disbelief when I say I marched for equality, it seems so distant now. Really, 1969 to them is no different than 1869.)
After all, they are thirty years old or less.

What are they interested in?
Being respected. Being acknowledged as a person.
Being recognized as a talented individual who has worked to learn their craft.

About Obama, they know his story. His history is their history.
They were raised, many of them, by their grandmothers.
Grandmothers who, their words not mine, took no ****.
And who have their deepest gratitude.

Do you know what they see when they look at Barack Obama?
They see someone who from what could have been nearly nothing,
~a distant father, a mother dead too young~
rose up
went to school
achieved
succeeded
was loved
was challenged
achieved
succeeded
over and over,
and over.
~~~~~~to become the President of the United States of America.

You should be proud, Foofie, to be in this country, this nation, because with the success of Barack Obama we have proven the real first tenet of American Exceptionalism which is, this nation is like no other, anyone may rise to its highest heights.

Anyone, even you, Foofie, even you, my brother, even you.

Joe(open up your eyes)Nation

1 Reply

@Joe Nation,

That's nice that you know many talented people, including talented people of color. I just look at things from a sociological perspective, and in my opinion, many African-Americans voted for Obama, similar to many Irish Catholics voted for Kennedy.

Now, let me explain something else. In my opinion, only American Jews would not be anxious to have a Jewish President, since many Jews, I believe, would think that whatever turned out "not so good," during a Jewish President's time in office, would only be reflected in a higher degree of societal anti-Semitism (blame the Jew syndrome). So, many African-Americans being no different than many Irish-Americans, who were really "proud" when Kennedy became President, were also proud when Obama became President Obama.

And, why did Obama become President when Hillary was already the presumptive Democrat candidate in 2008, to the point that African-Americans were already wearing Hillary buttons on the NYC subway? Well, regardless of the reasons we little chickens heard, I believe it was high time to have a Black President, in context of the loyalty of African-Americans to the Democratic Party. And, why was it high time, so to speak? In my opinion, because if a candidate was ever chosen, who was a person of color, and was not an African-American, before a Black President was elected, then there would be the possiblity of an alientated African-American consituency.

So, with the election of Obama, the balance of voting power, so to speak, can remain intact, even if down the road there were candidates that were people of color (including Hispanics that could be white, but a rival community in some people's thinking), but not African-Americans. Just my opinion.

And, I still think that you have not addressed the question we heard during the 2008 campaign whether Obama was "Black enough?" That was what the political pundits were saying some of the Black constituency was asking. What was the meaning of the question? I do not believe it was just based on his genome, but rather on his perceptions. Whether he "understood" the African-American experience in the US. That's all.

I do not know what the purpose of your litany is. But, I will still vote Republican in national elections.

P.S. As a "transplant," and not a native New Yorker, in my opinion, your exuberance is very typical. Meaning, NYC attracts those people that are to some degree naturally "up." Take that as a compliment, even though I avoid "transplants." [Foofie displays a self-satisfied expression, as he ends the post.]

0 Replies

And he too is a Chicken Hawk.

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