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Mayor Bloomberg proposes super-sized soda ban

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  3  
Reply Fri 14 Sep, 2012 10:31 pm
@firefly,
Since you apparently "get it," perhaps you might explain the benevolent wisdom of the Billionaire Nanny of New York.



Finn dAbuzz
 
  3  
Reply Fri 14 Sep, 2012 10:38 pm
@firefly,
People are obese because they take in far more calories than they can burn.

That some do so for psychological reasons is no doubt true, but whether as a manifestation of depression or simple gluttony, banning the size of soft drinks they buy will have zero impact on their condition.

Prohibition never serves the intended purpose and almost always leads to greater problems.

Blumberg is a pompus ass who thinks he can solve complex problems through simple fiats.

Nevertheless New Yorkers voted him in and so they have to live with his petty tyrannical tendencies.

Yet another reason I thank God that I moved South 30 years ago.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Sep, 2012 11:01 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Bloomberg can explain himself. And he has done so, at length. You won't have any trouble finding his statements.

If you are interested in understanding the thinking on this size regulation, you can read the original document which addresses and summarizes the 38, 000 comments received about it, as a result of public hearings and a period allowing for public comments. It's quite informative. 84% of the comments received supported the proposal, 16% opposed it.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/downloads/pdf/boh/article81-response-to-comments.pdf

So, the proposal, which is an amendment to the New York City Health Code, appears to have had overwhelming public support, judging by the comments received.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Sep, 2012 11:22 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
People are obese because they take in far more calories than they can burn.

That some do so for psychological reasons is no doubt true, but whether as a manifestation of depression or simple gluttony, banning the size of soft drinks they buy will have zero impact on their condition.

The soft drink size regulation is only one initiative in the City's task force plan to prevent and control obesity as a public health issue. There are other initiatives as well.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/om/pdf/2012/otf_report.pdf
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2012 04:57 am
@firefly,
Quote:
The soft drink size regulation is only one initiative in the City's task force plan to prevent and control obesity as a public health issue. There are other initiatives as well.


Yes we all know of how the big mother government is trying to force their ideas of good health decisions such as pressuring mothers in city hospitals to breast feed.

There is nothing wrong with making sure women have the facts and making it as easy to breast feed as possible but like all things the big mother mayor is involved in it going beyond that point to pressuring.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/07/31/new_york_mayor_bloomberg_s_new_breastfeeding_law_harmful_to_women.html

It’s hard to imagine what critical constituency Michael Bloomberg was reaching out to this week when he pushed New York’s maternity wards to hide their infant formula: the International Doula Association, Dr. and Mrs. Sears, the citizens of Portland? Starting September 3, the city will start urging hospitals to keep infant formula in locked boxes or in out of the way, secure storerooms. Already New York has one of the most pro-breast milk policies in the nation. With a program called Latch On NYC, the mayor has convinced most of the city’s hospitals to stop giving out swag bags containing formula, and to have nurses record a medical reason for giving a baby a bottle. But this takes the policy one step further by sending the message that formula is like dangerous medicine, only to be dispensed in case of an emergency.


The question here is not whether breastfeeding is better or worse, we can all agree that breastfeeding infants is somewhat better than not breastfeeding them. The question is, as I have written many times before, that we do not want to feed into a culture that has made the failure or lack of desire to breastfeed seem like a shameful and even criminal affair. By the statistical odds, that woman those nurses are talking down to at the hospital probably has to go back to work in less than a month. The last thing she needs is a nurse frowning at her and making her sign a form because she wants to give her baby a bottle.


Then there is the question of general condescension. When I was a brand new, righteous vigilant mother I too got that swag bag with the packet of Infamil in it. I was outraged, horrified, I probably cursed for the first time in front of my precious infant. But that little packet did not break down my resolve and compromise my moral rectitude. I did with it the same thing I do when I get a swag bag from a PR company or my dentist: I threw it into the garbage, because I am grown person and I can do things like that.

Now that I am older and wiser and ten years into parenting I have realized something about that packet. Infant formula is not poison. It is one of the great and completely unheralded engines of women’s liberation. Take away infant formula and the millions of women who fuel our economy would no longer be able to work, because American employers are certainly not going to pay them to stay home and breastfeed.

There is only one good thing about Bloomberg’s announcement: it seems to have pissed women off, by turning the breastfeeding debate into a question of self determination. For a few years I have been relatively alone in complaining about the enormous pressure to breastfeed but now there are more angry voices joining the chorus. Gayle Tzemach Lemmon called Bloomberg’s announcement the new war on women in the Atlantic today. “Giving birth to a baby does not make you an infant,” she wrote. Hear hear.








firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2012 03:52 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
There is nothing wrong with making sure women have the facts and making it as easy to breast feed as possible but like all things the big mother mayor is involved in it going beyond that point to pressuring.

I don't see where any pressuring is going on, having read a little bit more about this policy.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/mayor_knows_breast_WqU1iYRQvwbEkDuvn0vb1H

It is a legitimate public heath function of the nursing profession to educate the public, and that's what these nurses are doing. Keeping the baby formula in a locked cabinet insures that only the nurse, and not some aide, can remove it, and that the nurse will advise the mother of the more healthful benefits of breastfeeding, over bottle feeding, when she gives it to the mother. Whether that nurse delivers the info in a "pressuring" manner is somewhat dependent on the individual nurse and not the policy.

This policy is trying not to promote bottle-feeding, or have the hospital serve to act as a promotional resource, a source of free advertising, for the manufacturers of baby formula by using the lanyards or cups with manufacturers logos on them these manufacturers supply to the hospital. They don't want to just hand the bottle of formula to the new mom without also educating her about the advantages of breastfeeding vs bottle feeding. Some mothers might not be aware of those benefits.

The policy also allows them to keep track of the bottles of baby formula requested, which might be useful for research study.

The woman who wrote that article was not a participant in this policy. If women who have actually been involved in this new policy begin to complain about being made to feel pressured, or uncomfortable, by this approach, and their desire to bottle feed, then the policy should certainly be reconsidered.

Breastfeeding is better for the baby than bottle feeding. But not all mothers can, or want to, breastfeed. The choice is theirs. Nothing about this policy changes that, it just makes sure they have the information to make an informed choice.

And this issue has absolutely nothing to do with the City's soda size regulation.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2012 04:00 pm
@firefly,
Right keeping the can milk under lock and key and only reluctantly allowing the mothers to bottle feed after having the mother sign paperwork.

Sure does not sound like pressuring the women to breast feed not at all Firefly.

What to bet that I can find other women who had been in this loving situation lately in NYC hospitals that had expressed the opinion that they had feel pressure to breast feed Firefly under the good mayor rule?
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2012 04:13 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Right keeping the can milk under lock and key and only reluctantly allowing the mothers to bottle feed after having the mother sign paperwork.

You are always required to sign to indicate that a nurse has given you info that he/she was required to do. The signature is proof the nurse has done his/her job in informing you. I believe you are even asked to sign to indicate you have been given discharge instructions before you leave a hospital.

If they didn't keep the formula in a locked cabinet, people other than nurses could remove it. They want the nurses in charge of it because it's the nurse who is responsible for providing the educational info they want the mother to have. And they want to keep track of how much formula is requested--that's one way they can get accurate data on how many mothers are bottle feeding in the hospital--and assigning that responsibility to nurses means they will get that data.

So now you oppose giving new mothers useful educational information? And you don't think that's a legitimate public health function of nurses?

And what does any of this have to do with the topic of this thread?
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2012 04:34 pm
@firefly,
The sad part is that everyone agree that breastfeeding is the ideal and the gold standard however any woman that is not aware of that fact must had been living under a rock so the need for nurses to give these poor stupid women a lecture on the subject and have them sign off on bottle feeding is questionable for any other reason then to add pressures on the women not to bottle feed.

Then NYC government wishes as expressed below for the hospitals not to have any bottle feeding unless medically necessary make it clear that any woman who can breast feed their infants but do not wishes to do so for whatever reason are going to be running into one hell of a lot of pressure not to bottle feed.

Once more it should be up to the women not the NYC government whether they breast feed or bottle feed and this is likely to cause one hell of a backlash.

If my wife was in the hospital and the stuff gave her a hard time about her choice in this matter there would be hell out at noon as it is not the business of the damn government beyond making it as painless as possible for women to breast feed who wish to try doing so.

Quote:
http://www.takepart.com/article/2012/07/31/bloomberg-latches-controversial-breastfeeding-initiative

Latch on NYC,” a citywide initiative that asks maternity hospitals to stop giving breastfeeding babies formula unless it’s medically necessary, restrict access to formula and track its distribution, counsel women on breastfeeding, and stop giving out free promotional formula and materials that endorse formula.


Quote:
Feldman-Winter, who is a published researcher on the topic of infant formula use in hospitals, said closer monitoring of formula has been demonstrated to make a difference.

“We have shown that once the formula is kept in a locked cabinet (“locked up”) and used only when medically necessary, then the usage is cut in half, resulting in more infants exclusively breastfeeding, an outcome good for the infant, family and our society as a whole,” she said.


0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2012 06:18 pm
The sad part is while everyone agree breastfeeding is best however not everyone think that trying to jam down the decision to breastfeed down women throats as they lied in bed after giving birth is a good idea.


http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=45852

PrintPosted to NYC News on July 31 2012
Mayor Orders Hospitals to Pressure Mothers to NurseDaily Mail


Mayor Bloomberg has demanded that hospitals stop handing out baby formula to persuade more new mothers to breastfeed their babies.

The New York City health department will monitor the number of formula bottles being given out and demand a medical reason for each one. From September 3, 27 out of 40 hospitals in the city have agreed to the terms of the Latch On initiative - which will also see them stop handing out free bags of formula and bottles.

Although mothers who want to bottle feed their babies will not be denied formula, it will be kept under lock and key similar to medications.

However any mother who requests formula will be given a lecture on why breastfeeding is better by hospital staff.'Human milk is best for babies and mothers,' said health commissioner Thomas Farley when the campaign was launched in May. 'With this initiative the New York City health community is joining together to support mothers who choose to nurse.'

However mother-of-two Lynn Sidnam, who formula-fed both her daughters, told the New York Post: 'If they put pressure on me, I would get annoyed.'

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2012 06:46 pm
Some comments from women and mothers that do not agree with your position Firefly that it is a great idea to pressure women into breastfeeding.


http://now.msn.com/nyc-hospitals-take-pro-breast-feeding-position

I think that Mayor Bloomberg is over stepping his position. I'm a mother of four, 20 year old twin girls, 14 year old boy, and a 23 month old boy. I have breastfeed all my children for varing amonts of time but it was MY personal choice. I believe in the benifits of brestfeeding but if I was harrassed because I didn't make a choice the city's mayor felt was the correct one. Who is he to mandate what a woman is suppose to with their body, he has never had to have his body used as a food source. Some women just can wrap thier heads around the concept, mant becase their Mother's or female role model did not chooses to breastfeed.

Mayor Bloomberg worry about the political world and policies and leave health care to the educated professionals.

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Encouraging breastfeeding is oen thing....but to the extent of giving the mother a choice of "we arent feeding your baby formula because you wanted to breastfeed and we've determined youve not put in enough effort to decide otherwise as of yet" and the lecture your going to recieve for electing formula from the start... while I am a breastfeeding mother, if I lived in NYC right now, my next baby would be born either out of state or "accidently" at home.... save me the lecture and the grief...
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don't have any issue with banning the corporate swag promoting breastfeeding. Unless things have changed considerably in the last 8 years, there's a lot of contact from the formula companies during pregnancy promoting their products. However, the rest is unnecessary and overstepping. Locking up the formula? Documenting a "medical reason" for it's distribution? Forcing moms to sit through a lecture on why they should breastfeed every time they're given formula while their newborn is sitting there hungry and crying? Who in the world thought this guy was a good idea??
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It's a woman's choice as to what she wants to do with her body. I tried to breast feed, but my body could not produce enough to keep up with my son. Also, being a teacher, my job did not offer the flexibility or privacy to pump in private to continue to breast feed. Please be sensitive with your comments and do not pass judgement on mothers that choose not to breast feed. You do not necessarily know their reasons for not doing so. If Bloomberg is going to go that far, he might as well make sure everyone who buys cigarettes gets a lecture! That is obviously way worse to do to your body and to others around you with second hand smoke!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2012 07:24 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Some comments from women and mothers that do not agree with your position Firefly that it is a great idea to pressure women into breastfeeding.

Please post a quote from me where I said it is a "great idea to pressure women into breastfeeding". And I didn't take any "position" on this NYC breastfeeding program.

Your constant distortion of my comments, or attributing to me things I never said, in thread after thread, is really bizarre. You seem delusional.

You're certainly not in contact with reality. You don't even seem to know the topic of this thread.

BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2012 07:33 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Please post a quote from me where I said it is a "great idea to pressure women into breastfeeding". And I didn't take any "position" on this NYC breastfeeding program.


My my defend a program and then pulling the plug when the you are feeling the heat.

Shame on you.......................

Come on the state have a right hell the state have a duty to protect it adults citizens from themselves be the danger a large size soda cup or cans of infant formula.

Be proud of what you are Firefly as trying to snake away is kind of shameful action on your part.


firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2012 08:33 pm
@BillRM,
I wasn't defending the program, I was trying to explain it to you because you didn't seem to understand it, or why it was being implemented in a particular way.

I have no interest in defending the breastfeeding program. I have no real interest in the program period. I don't know why the hell you even brought that program up in this thread.
Quote:

Come on the state have a right hell the state have a duty to protect it adults citizens from themselves be the danger a large size soda cup or cans of infant formula.

The state, through it's various health departments and other agencies, has an obligation to promote public heath, protect public health, and to educate the public regarding public health.

Given the fact that 60% of the adults in New York City are obese, it could certainly be argued that these adults aren't doing a very good job of protecting themselves from the significant health risks associated with obesity.

And when food service vendors in New York City, offer 32 oz and 48 oz cups of soda, but do not even offer 8 oz, or even 10 oz, cups of soda, they're helping to contribute to the public health problem of obesity.

BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 15 Sep, 2012 09:08 pm
@firefly,
Oh so the mayor getting into every one private business when in come to the seize of soda cups they are allow to purchase is of interest to you but not when he get into the private decision of women when it come to breast feeding or not?

All one and the same mind set of a big nanny government that need to take care of the stupid citizens and protect them from their own judgments.

Come on the mayor is your soul mate when it come to the low opinion of the masses and the need of government to protect the stupid little dears from themselves.
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2012 01:26 pm
The Value In Sweet Drinks
Quote:
No public health statistics will solve this for you. It is a question about value. In particular, it is a question about the value of pleasure.

Soda has no place in my conception of the good. But pleasure does. And it seems to me that the attack on soda and candy — an attack that is really just getting going, I fear — like the older and still ongoing attacks on drugs, tobacco and alcohol, is an attack on the value of pleasure. We've left the domain of public health, here. We are squarely in the domain of value.

There are many other issues at stake in the soda debate. For example, it might be said that consumers are actually the victims of Big Soda's manipulative super-sizing and that New York City is well within its rights to try to take measures to protect consumers.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2012/09/24/161277720/the-value-in-sweet-drinks
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2012 01:45 pm
@tsarstepan,
I'm uncomfortable with the ban (I'm uh, like, 1% libertarian) but see your point. I'm also uncomfortable with the frankly amazing growth of drink sizes. Including coffee.

There was a thread on odd names recently. I didn't add the one that sticks with me through life - when I first went to work at sixteen, I got to know the names of a lot of hospital workers because I took their mini xrays or filed the results. One was named Fanny Waddell. That struck me as very funny (16, remember) and I stifled laughing as she was right in front of me. I know since that Fanny is a nickname of Frances. I don't remember what she looked like, but definitely not extremely overweight. But it's more than fifty years later and I still remember reading her name on the med slip.

I've also learned a lot about differing metabolisms and genetics and perhaps the role of bacteria, and no longer go for calories in/calories out simplicity.

Still, some obesity has to do with eating the wrong stuff.

I was for the transfats bans, and am clearly mixed on soda sizes. We'll see where I end up thinking.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2012 02:02 pm
@ossobuco,
I've also remarked on a2k once or twice about my shock in coming home to Los Angeles airport after a month in Italy. Back then people mingled, all the security stuff off in our future. When we walked out onto the concourse I saw a world of fatties, stunning upon being away.

I've been a chub myself so I'm not knocking people who are dealing with obesity - that's the last thing I'd do re people dealing with it, trying.

Something does seem to be wrong, re our eating and drinking, for ease and comfort. Re the U.S., I'll point an arrow to Fear of Vegetables, probably caused by decades of miserable vegetable cookery in the heartland, wherever that is.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2012 02:06 pm
@ossobuco,
Those vegetables are such a hard sell, they have to hide there presence - like in soup and stuff
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Sep, 2012 02:07 pm
@ossobuco,
You know what I hate - there are no smalls any more. If I order a small I am corrected - medium? Or the dreaded Starbucks "Tall" who the h*ll calls a small size a "tall"?
 

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