campaign 2004...misinformation and "black propaganda"

I think the time to be principled and above the fray as they say is not now. Too much is at stake, at least I think it is.

There are quite a few examples of yucky in this Drudge link... http://www.drudgereport.com/ ...inuendo, third or fourth hand reports (but no evidence), etc.

Drudge is hardly impartial, and the level of reportage here breaks pretty much every standard I've noted above.

revel

It is only in relationship to examples of integrity that the lack of it becomes apparent.

Forgive me blatham, but the democrats have been falling for that for too long and look where it has gotten us.

I am not saying we should lie or make things up, those thing are risky as well as moraly unacceptable, but we got to fight and dig and bring up everything we possibly can. We got to ignore the other side when they talk of "negative compaigning" or when they say things like "its just a political election year" or "shut up and sing." (I can't still can't over the demise of the dixie chicks, they were one of the few new country singers I liked) There is plenty to use telling the truth and we gotta keep doing it even if we can't prove whatever it is we are telling.

Are you having another election in Canada? Nothingof which you speak seems to be occuring here in the South

farmerperson

We are indeed about to re-experience the joy of a Canadian federal election...kidnappings, knee cap rearrangements, bludgeoned nuns...the full gamut of electoral jockeying. Happy things are pacific amongst you and yours.

revel

I do not mean to imply that anything negative is negative, even if Don Rumsfeld may have a copyright on any sentence like this one. Nor that fierce aggression is out of place or inappropriate. Nor even that we can't be mindful of how the media actually function (finding a cat caught up a tree and having Kerry rescue it...idiotic, but likely workable).

I mean that purposeful falsehoods not only demean the entire process, but that they work against the perpetrators. For example, I've heard Ann Coulter denigrated in public by both David Brooks and Tucker Carlson, for her particularly scurrilous arguments and claims.

Al Franken, for another example, is acutely aware that the credibility of his writing sits upon accuracy of the claims he makes. And that's the only viable way to do this, I think. If Franken were to slide into the sort of vile innuendo (knowingly false) or the careless research of Coulter, I, and many others, would cease listening to or reading him.

blatham- The name of your thread confused me. I thought it might have something to do with African Americans!

sheesh

No one understands me...my wife, my children, my dog...

Term now in those little quotey marks.

berine :wink: :

A noble (though slightly effeminate) Mountie you are, and yet this thread be flamebait.

Let's just declare Matt Drudge a Democratic zipper-sniffer and leave it at that.

Yeah...

I take revel's point well. Nimh has posted some supposedly low-down-dirty tricks that Kerry pulled on Dean (not sure if it was true) and my first reaction was "yuck", my second reaction was "good." I think the Democratic candidate has to be willing to be ruthless, as ruthless as the opposition -- so I think it's gonna just be ugly. Hopefully amidst the ugliness the truth will out.

Ive always suspected that our own candidatorial selection process is only slightly surpassed by those wonderful theories by Darwin and Wallace.

Bill Moyers last night had a report on how the conservative Talk Radio informs so many of americas unwashed. A hate spewing chap from Portland was profiled, who used an unfounded rumour to defeat a plan to raise taxes to pay for services in Oregon. He and his ilk got their wish, no new taxes, and now their will be cutbacks in healthcare, police/fire/ems, and education.
One can only hope that, in the interest of karmic justice, he has an mva after colliding with a school kid who has been forced to commute across the city to go to school, is trapped in the vehicle because nearest ladder company with a functioning Hurst tool is twenty minutes away, waits another thirty minutes for a medic unit to be available, then gets transported to a hospital where he has to wait for the one CT scanner, etc.. that is still functioning to be free. Later, he acquires a nosocomial infection and has his fingers, toes, nose and penis amputated, all because of short staffing in the hospital. To top things off, he is arrested on discharge for failure to renew his concealed carry permit, for which he is so famous, and thrown into an overcrowded jail, where he is trussed up and brutally gangraped daily by an inmate who dropped out of school due to the budget cutbacks.

blatham; isn't it politically incorrect to change the chosen name of a participant, in the name (or ideology of if un'named') of political correctness?

hmmm it is difficult to effect a gangrape with a 'party of one', but the rest sounds scrumptious!

and blatham, whatever should we do about our own 'filthy laundry' here in the great 'washed' North?
should we not instigate discussion?
your keyboard, or mine?

blatham

Are you thinking that maybe the Bush and the awol thing falls into the category of "black propaganda?" I can't think of anything else that is being said that would fall into that category.

I hope that the democrats don't overuse it. I noticed that when things are overused they have a way of backlashing. He came out with the records though there were some missing days and an officer in the National guard stood up for him. We made our point and I think the smart thing would be to let it go. There is plenty to bring up with just Bush's policies now.

bogowo

I really don't expect things in our election to approach the ugliness of the one to the south. As you know, polarization is happening here too, as is consolidation of media ownership in fewer hands (also, reflecting the US, in rightwing hands), and we have our evangelical contingent, wired-in to the movements down south, and now we even have a photogenic rich right wing blonde skipping the entire previous public duty criterion, and heading right for the top job.

But, I confess that my most acute interests in political matters seem best served in observing the US. So my study and attention goes there.

But there is no reason why we can't follow the canadian election here too, so long as we look to the same subject - slime over truth.

revel

I think Bush's past (contribution and dedication, voting record, etc) is fair game, as is Kerry's. But relevant issues, not whether or not Bush ever humped someone else while married.

So, I'm looking to document here, as the election progresses, instances where a campaign will use not relevant facts, but will stoop to creating or forwarding innuendo and character assassination using known lies and half truths.

soz

I do think, truly, that the only way out of the morass is for at least one party to maintain integrity. If guys like Frankin or Gary Trudeau or the dem candidate start playing Ann Coulter's game, then let's break out the booze, and have a ball, if that's all, there is.