campaign 2004...misinformation and "black propaganda"

For you blatham!

Sorry, but I couldn't resist.

LOL

Hmm, well what I mean is stuff that pretty much is Franken's game. I think he is fairly careful with his facts, but he uses a lot of bombast, a lot of rhetorical flourishes. He's not an academic. He panders.

"Integrity" is too subjective, here.

soz

That's where I figured you'd sit. Bombast and artfulness of presentation seem quite ok to me, even fun. Promotion of that which is known to be false, or even which has a high possibility of being false (without an attached proviso) is my target.

reading

BBB
Pondering

blatham

But, I confess that my most acute interests in political matters seem best served in observing the US. So my study and attention goes there.

I knew someone in lycos that now lives in Canada, he was originally from Scotland. I and a lot of others got to know him pretty well. I admit that it is going to take me a long while to get over the mooning for Lycos. I imagine you didn't want to hear all that personal stuff.

anyway, I understand what you are saying now and I agree. People's bedroom situation are not important, or at least shouldn't be. Yet, somehow it has a way of dominating just the same. Now there is story going around about George Bush driving someone to an abortion clinic. The only reason why that would be of interest to anyone is because he hides behind this right wing religious facade and that would make him not credible if true. Kind of like Rush Limbauge (forgive my spelling please) and his pill addiction problem. If he hadn't of made such a big deal about how all drug offenders should be behind bars then his addiction would merit sympathy more than just scorn.

I think the trouble is that for a lot of people they really think that people in power have to be religiously morally upright in order to be a good leader. If they are not then hardly anything else is going to matter and since they considers all democrats and most liberal democrats to be without morals they think that any democrat is morally corrupt so they always looking for something like to bring them down. We liberal democrats on the other hand think that all conservative republicans are cooperate greedy guts and bedroom policemen and so are always ready to believe and try to seek to find those qualities where we can in republicans. The problem that we are having is that for once it is not just politics but it is something that is truly happening and because of the game that has been played it is all put down to just politics. At least that is my conclusions.

A poster formt eh far right on the Rocky Mountain News' froum is busly spamming the board with news stories about the "intern." Frst was from the London Sun, second from Freerepublic.com. He finally got around to something from a marginally believeable source, the Independent, which had much less vitriol, and implies the relationship was consensual. I do so wonder why the righties feel the need to engage in such porcine tendenceis, wallowing in filth all day?

But isn't it evident that those you cited do indeed play the same game as Ann Coulter: they merely use different styles and approaches. Even Soz has noted this.

By the way - with reference to "Is That All There Is", a truly wonderful Peggy Lee song from the late '60s, did you know the idea was taken from a little known short story by Thomas Mann, named "Desolation". The scene, as I recall it was St Mark's square in Venice and the dialogue (identical in nearly every detail) was between customers at adjacent tables in a cafe.

Information about candidate's lives is interesting and relevant insofar as it illuminates meaningful elements of their characters. I believe that slander and hypocricy are about evenly distributed in this area.

Oh please, george. Have you read Franken's latest book? He at least, as Blatham points out, does excellent research. He's funny, thank God, but he is much more that a cog in a machine. He does think for himself. You must admit it.

george

You really can't validly make the claim that Coulter and Franken are merely opposite sides of the same coin, without having read them both in some detail. When you report back that this term one assignment is completed, I shall be happy to mark your paper.

I did not know about that relationship (Mann's story and the Lee song). Actually, just several weeks ago, I heard the lyricist talking about the song. He didn't speak to what you mention, but he pointed to the complete lack of rhyme (other than ball/all) and said that when Peggy Lee heard the song, she insisted that it go to no one but her..."That IS my song", she told him.

Here's a lovely piece from Timothy Noah at Slate on how unconfirmed or dubious information (of the sleazy sort) can be forwarded under false pretences.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2095441/

I'll confess that I have never read a book by Ann Coulter, or Riley, or Carville or Frankin, or any of the other hacks who would sell their predigested political opinions to those with a (to me) inexplicable appetite for such stuff. I can make it through each day without it. Better to try and understand the issues temselves, and let the various advocates do their thing without clouding ones own perceptions.

I had always assumed that Peggy Lee wrote "Is that all there is". It is beyond doubt that the lyric and idea came from Mann's story - even the sequence of images (the circus, the fire, love) is identical.

george
I dug up this for you... http://www.insightmag.com/news/2002/02/18/Features/The-Last.Word-170029.shtml
I knew nothing about Randy Newman's contribution here. That fellow is an American treasure!

Lee did write brilliant lyrics, as in "We are Siamese" from Lady and the Tramp. And, years ago, an animator who worked on that film revealed that to animate the seductive wiggle of a female dog (in the pound where Tramp had been locked up), they used Lee's wiggle as the model.

The popular political commentary is, I think, important to keep somewhat abreast of. A lot of these folks are very intelligent (eg Didion, Safire). But also, it facilitates an overview of the currents of discourse. You'd find, for example, that parroting from single sources is depressingly common. You probably knew or suspected that anyway, but it makes debate a little easier to wade through where one knows a debater isn't thinking very independently.

Blatham,

Thanks for the "Insight" link to the Peggy Lee story. She has long been a favorite and I have recordings of nearly all of her work. I failed to note that the Thomas Mann story also contained the repeated rhetorical question that became the title of the song, "Is that all there is?"

After a very quick perusal I have the impression thaT "Insight" is a right wing site. True? What are you doing there?

I probably should do more to keep myself abreast of contemporary opinion. However - so little time, so many books, so much music, etc.

I do acknowledge that, despite avoiding single sources for my views. I have evolved a certain point of view. My narrow mindedness is entirely self-created, and I have no one to blame for it.

george

I couldn't recall the lyricist's name, so just searched it out on google and landed in that RIGHT WING HELLHOLE. Actually, I have no idea about the site, and didn't read past what I came rooting about for.

You are forgiven for having limited time in a world so pregnant with good stuff.

Blatham and George
Blatham and George, I thought George's phrase (However - so little time, so many books, so much music, etc.) was a familiar one. Both of you might be interested in this book. I was amused by the author's description of her book buying and reading habits being so similar to my own---BBB

So Many Books, So Little Time: A Year of Passionate Reading
by Sara Nelson

Editorial Reviews - From Publishers Weekly:

"I have a New Year's plan," Nelson writes in the prologue to this charming diary of an unapologetic "readaholic." Her goal: to read a book a week for a year and try "to get down on paper what I've been doing for years in my mind: matching up the reading experience with the personal one and watching where they intersect-or don't." Armed with a list of books, the author, a Glamour senior contributing editor, the New York Observer's publishing columnist and a veteran book reviewer, begins her 52-week odyssey. She doesn't necessarily stick to her list, which includes classics ("the homework I didn't do in college"), books everyone's talking about (like David McCullough's John Adams) and titles as diverse as Call It Sleep, by Henry Roth, and Irvine Welsh's Trainspotting. But she succeeds in sharing her infectious enthusiasm for literature in general, the act of reading and individual books and authors. Along the way, Nelson unearths treasures. She becomes enamored of David Mura's Turning Japanese, a memoir that helps her understand her Japanese-American husband better, and looks to Henry Dunow's The Way Home, about coaching baseball, while trying to help her second-grade son improve his athletic skills. Most readers will probably come away from this love letter to books eager to pursue some of Nelson's favorites-Nora Ephron's Heartburn, perhaps, or Emma Donoghue's Slammerkin-which is what makes Nelson's reflections inspiring and worthwhile.
Copyright 2003 Reed Business Information, Inc.

Augusten Burroughs
A smart, witty, utterly original memoir about how every book we read becomes a part of us.

Book Description:
The well-known publishing correspondent and self-described "readaholic" chronicles a year spent reading-and the surprises it brought.

In early 2002, Sara Nelson-editor, reporter, reviewer, mother, daughter, wife, and compulsive reader-set out to chronicle a year's worth of reading, to explore how the world of books and words intermingled with children, marriage, friends, and the rest of the "real" world. She had a system all set up: fifty-two weeks, fifty-two books . . . and it all fell apart the first week. That's when she discovered that books chose her as much as she chose them, and the rewards and frustrations they brought were nothing she could plan for: "In reading, as in life, even if you know what you're doing, you really kind of don't."

From Solzhenitsyn to Laura Zigman, Catherine M. to Captain Underpants, this is the captivating result. It is a personal memoir filled with wit, charm, insight, infectious enthusiasm-and observations on everything from Public Books (the ones we pretend we're reading), lending trauma and the idiosyncrasies of sex scenes ("The mingling of bodies and emotions and fluids is one thing. But reading about it: now that's personal") to revenge books, hype, the stresses of recommendation (What does it mean when someone you like hates the book you love?), the odd reasons we pick up a book in the first place, and how to put it down if we don't like it ("The literary equivalent of a bar mitzvah, the moment at which you look at yourself and announce: Today I am an adult."). Throughout, So Many Books, So Little Time is pure delight-a work at once funny, wise, and rueful: enough to make a passionate reader out of anybody.

Blatham,

That willingness to forgive - that's your best quality.

I'll bet you were really rooting around the 'Insight' site just to covertly lap up some right thinking. No problem. I forgive you too.

BTW.I clicked on a link at the bottom of your signature line - "Arts and Letters Daily" - looks interesting. What is it?

I haven't seen this mentioned yet, so I'll put it here:Polier and Family deny rumours of affair.

So much for that, but the truth probably isn't as much fun as the lies.