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campaign 2004...misinformation and "black propaganda"

 
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 09:48 am
You know, I will probably have to read Franken's book after I finish the couple of books I'm half way through right now. I don't doubt that some of it will make me livid, or dizzy from shaking my head so frenetically, but I am equally sure it will be hilarious. I've always thought Franken was a very funny person. That he may be so wrong about so much does not change that. :wink:
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 10:18 am
Did you see "It's Pat"? Shocked

Funny?
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 10:23 am
That's not Al!!

Al is STUART. ("I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people LIKE me!!")

(Loved "Stuart Saves his Family".)
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 10:26 am
sozobe wrote:
That's not Al!!

Al is STUART. ("I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people LIKE me!!")

(Loved "Stuart Saves his Family".)


Yeah! That's the one! You really liked it?

(I apologize for mistaking one stupid SNL skit for a different stupid SNL skit Embarrassed )
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 10:27 am
I loved it!

Didn't like Pat.

Loved Stuart!
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 10:44 am
Sozobe wrote:
Quote:
I think what is very unfortunate is that these campaigns rely so heavily on sound bites, both of the aural and visual kind (I think of the "Hanoi John" manipulated photo as a sound bite.) But given that fact, I think the game needs to be played, and a serious contender needs to be willing to play it.


As far as the question of human nature and the inevitable goes, I agree with nimh about us setting the limits about what is allowed. But what I don't think we can set a limit on is how many independent voters we have who haven't the time or inclination to inform themselves adequately on the issues. They are fed by the machines because they don't and won't feed themselves. Unfortunately, it comes down to who has the best machine and who uses the machine the best.

Those of us who are concerned and interested enough to pay attention should be trying to define and set limits that make sense and try to ensure some "high road" politics. But to the extent those limits are not in place, I agree with Sozobe and BBB, all have to play by the same rules.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 11:21 am
Having set foot inside a few twelve-step meetings, myself, I really enjoyed Franken's Stuart Smalley character.

http://franken.8k.com/stuart2.gif

He really nailed the prototypical whiney alcoholic/addict. I can honestly say that his cartoonish overuse of clichés was actually underdone. I knew real people who were far more comical. Of course, they were decent people dealing as best they could with their lives, and I showed them respect, listened, even learned from some. But as Stuart showed, they were funny. I'm glad I had a chance to laugh at Stuart, because decorum and common decency prohibited me from laughing at those I knew who were like him.

(Oh, and I'm sure there were others who were kind enough to not laugh at me as well. At least not in my presence.) Laughing
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 11:29 am
Quote:
He really nailed the prototypical whiney alcoholic/addict

Rather like the one in the White House.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 11:33 am
hobit

To quote another classic character creation..."Oh, behave!"
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 11:40 am
I agree Scrat, Franken's Stuart Smalley character hit the nail on the head. He presented a man who was defeating himself and yet in his every effort to stop it, continued his own self defeating technique. It was/is comical......or at least, let's say, Franken used humor in the best way possible. He used it to demonstrate a serious problem (self-destruction), one we all need to take seriously, by lightening it with humor. If we can laugh at ourselves, it's easier to look at ourselves with more forgiving objectivity.

I also agree with Hobitbob, that if only the guy in the White House could do the same, we'd all be better off.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 12:22 pm
blatham wrote:
I suspect, having read both your posts and Thomas' for some time, that the three of us would likely reach pretty similar decisions, if we were deeply involved in a campaign, as to what ethical lines ought not to be crossed.

Tell me about it. One of my most frequent complaints to Sozobe is that she and I just can't seem to lay our similarities aside, find some mutual disagreement, and start a fight about it. Wink Here was me thinking I have a nice, yummy bone of contention with her, and it turns out I just didn't get her point about subjective judgment. Confused
I haven't read Franken's comments on Anne Coulter yet, so I don't know whether he would ever resort to ad-hominems. But I doubt it. A book title like "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot" only seems to state the obvious in a fair and balanced way. I wouldn't be surprised if a random sample of A2K Republicans -- Scrat, Timber, and georgeob1, say -- agrees with it.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Feb, 2004 12:56 pm
Smile

Did I mention the Earth is flat? I've recently become convinced.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 08:43 pm
Here is a particularly egregious example, though typical, from Coulter...
Quote:
...Ann Coulter, whose latest error-riddled effusion is an attack on former Georgia Sen. Max Cleland, who has been critical of the Bush administration. Apparently in an effort to make George W.'s incomplete in the National Guard look better, Coulter wrote a column distributed by the Heritage Foundation saying Cleland, a triple amputee, had showed "no bravery" in Vietnam, "didn't give his limbs for his country," is not a war hero. My favorite sentence is, "Luckily for Cleland ... he happened (to lose his limbs) while in Vietnam," her point being that if he had been injured at Fort Dix, he wouldn't be a hero.

He also wouldn't have been under enemy fire at Fort Dix. She says he lost his legs in "a routine noncombat mission where he was about to drink beer with friends." Actually, Cleland lost his limbs when a grenade detonated after he and another soldier jumped off a helicopter in a combat zone.

As for not being a war hero, Cleland earned the Silver Star in a separate incident just four days before he was injured. The citation reads, "during heavy enemy rocket and mortar attack, Capt. Cleland disregarded his own safety, exposed himself to rocket barrage as he left his covered position to administer first aid to his wounded comrades. He then assisted them in moving the injured personnel to covered positions. Cleland's gallant action is in keeping with the highest traditions of military service and reflects great credit upon himself, his unit and the United Sates Army."

How lucky for Cleland ...

http://www.creators.com/opinion_show.cfm?columnsName=miv
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 08:56 pm
I met MAx in the early 1990s when , he presented awards at the Association of Engineering Geologists meeting in Atlanta. We presented some awards to some of our members who , during Vietnam, were military (COE) geologists who were sent forward to scout particular laterite soil deposits which could be quickly bulldozed, wet down and turned into heavy lift runways. Cleland selflessly spoke of how he admired some of these engineer guys who got in country before he , and he always wondered how they managed to create airfields and heavy runways in the middle of a war zone.
what a goddam shame what they did to Cleland in order to win an election. coulter really is a pig. This will show up in Google that farmerman sez Ann Coulter is a PIG
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 10:18 pm
well, maybe it will also show up in Google that Lola says she's a pig too.
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 11:42 pm
Ann Coulter is a pig!
Ann Coulter is a pig!

http://www.bigpiggig.com/assets/pigs/640/196_n.jpg

OR

http://www.bigpiggig.com/assets/pigs/640/73_n.jpg
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 11:44 pm
Rush Limbaugh is a pig, too!
Rush Limbaugh is a pig, too!

http://www.bigpiggig.com/assets/pigs/640/234_n.jpg
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2004 11:58 pm
Yeah! Micheal Moore is a big fat PIG!!!


Hey! This is kind of fun!

Picture
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Feb, 2004 12:06 am
Alan Greenspan is a pig!
Alan Greenspan is a pig!

http://www.bigpiggig.com/assets/pigs/640/165_n.jpg
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Feb, 2004 12:07 am
Fly boy George W. Bush is a pig!
Fly boy George W. Bush is a pig!

http://www.bigpiggig.com/assets/pigs/640/273_n.jpg
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