sozobe wrote:I take revel's point well. Nimh has posted some supposedly low-down-dirty tricks that Kerry pulled on Dean (not sure if it was true) and my first reaction was "yuck", my second reaction was "good." I think the Democratic candidate has to be willing to be ruthless, as ruthless as the opposition -- so I think it's gonna just be ugly. Hopefully amidst the ugliness the truth will out.
blatham wrote:I do think, truly, that the only way out of the morass is for at least one party to maintain integrity. If guys like Frankin or Gary Trudeau or the dem candidate start playing Ann Coulter's game, then let's break out the booze, and have a ball, if that's all, there is.
sozobe wrote:Hmm, well what I mean is stuff that pretty much is Franken's game. I think he is fairly careful with his facts, but he uses a lot of bombast, a lot of rhetorical flourishes. He's not an academic. He panders.
"Integrity" is too subjective, here.
Hmmm ... confused, here.
Soz, first you mention "low-down-dirty tricks" as probably being, on the balance, a good thing for a Dem candidate to engage in, in these times of having to face Bush, Rove c.s.
(And if they're being deployed to fellow-Democrats rather than Bush himself, thats probably good then purely on account of it being evidence that a candidate
can be counted on to engage in such things - I mean, if he even does it to fellow Democrats, who havent actually done much in the way of Rovish tricks against him...)
But later you seem to point much more generally in the direction of Franken-like hyperbole as being useful. Isnt there kindof a huge gulf between populist hyperbole and low-down-dirty tricks, though? Where do you draw the line, then - if anywhere?
I myself have muchos less tolerance for these things in the primaries than in the general elections, on top of upholding a kind of minimum standards. The differentiation is because, to the extent that I would condone it, it would be as
necessary, not as a good thing per se. And I dont see how its
necessary for Dem candidate A to stoop to such tricks against Dem candidate B. I think Ive had that discussion a few times here: I would point out something in the primary campaign that I thought couldnt pass muster, and a choir would resound, "but Bush and Rove do it too!". I dont see the logic of that - how does what Rove does against you make it a good thing for you,
not just to do it back to him and his candidate (which would fall in the category of "necessary"), but to do it to your fellow Dem candidates as well? Then it becomes a question of character to my mind.