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Florida's Stand your Ground law

 
 
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 03:51 pm
@ossobuco,
I still have no clue re any action at the gate. In my outsider take, guests are usually registered. How sloppy that is, I've no idea - my own experience is that friends and clients who lived in gated places had me on a list when I showed up. You know me, I didn't like all that. It wasn't all that often, which is why I remember.

This seems not addressed. I'm guessing Trayvon wasn't registered, or that he was and dodo didn't check, or that the neighborhood didn't worry about registering.
I'm guessing the latter. This is beginning to seem to me a faux or semi gated place.

To be bald about it, I'm only used to high end gated places. The photo I saw recently is a surprise.

Is gating becoming more utilized?
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 04:10 pm
@ossobuco,
and while more utilized, used sloppily?
0 Replies
 
EqualityFLSTPete
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 04:34 pm
@Irishk,
I read that today too. Heard on the news just now that a Grand Jury in FL is used only if they were going to try and charge someone with First Degree (pre-meditated) Murder. Probably worth a little research to confirm if that's the case.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 04:39 pm
@EqualityFLSTPete,
I don't know Zimmerman's mode. I don't preclude he didn't want to do the guy.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 07:15 pm
So it seems GZ has come out of hiding to accept donations:

Quote:
George Zimmerman’s Website Seeks Donations, Includes Photo From Vandalized Black Cultural Center (UPDATED)

After weeks of silence, George Zimmerman has emerged with his own website: therealgeorgezimmerman.com. Zimmerman's lawyers have confirmed that the site is legitimate.

The site — which loads intermittently, probably due to the number of people trying to access it — has the following statement from Zimmerman:

On Sunday February 26th, I was involved in a life altering event which led me to become the subject of intense media coverage. As a result of the incident and subsequent media coverage, I have been forced to leave my home, my school, my employer, my family and ultimately, my entire life. This website's sole purpose is to ensure my supporters they are receiving my full attention without any intermediaries.

Zimmerman was concerned that individuals or groups purporting to raise money for his legal defense were scamming his supporters, as he has not received any of the donations. His site includes a PayPal link for people interested in contributing.

Otherwise, the site is fairly bare bones. A section titled "The Facts" explains that Zimmerman cannot comment on the events of the night he shot Trayvon Martin. "Album" includes two photos, one of a "JUSTICE FOR ZIMMERMAN" sign and the other of "LONG LIVE ZIMMERMAN" tagged onto the side of a building. The intriguing "My Race" page includes a single quote from Thomas Paine: "The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion."

George Zimmerman has not been charged with any crime in the death of Trayvon Martin. Florida State Attorney Angela Corey announced she would not use a grand jury in the case, and will be determining the outcome on her own.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 10:02 pm
@boomerang,
Quote:
I am the real George Zimmerman,

On Sunday February 26th, I was involved in a life altering event which led me to become the subject of intense media coverage. As a result of the incident and subsequent media coverage, I have been forced to leave my home, my school, my employer, my family and ultimately, my entire life. This website's sole purpose is to ensure my supporters they are receiving my full attention without any intermediaries.

It has come to my attention that some persons and/or entities have been collecting funds, thinly veiled as my “Defense Fund” or "Legal Fund". I cannot attest to the validity of these other websites as I have not received any funds collected, intended to support my family and I through this trying, tragic time.

I have created a Paypal account solely linked on this website as I would like to provide an avenue to thank my supporters personally and ensure that any funds provided are used only for living expenses and legal defense, in lieu of my forced inability to maintain employment. I will also personally, maintain accountability of all funds received. I reassure you, every donation is appreciated.

Sincerely,
George Zimmerman


Note: Link not included on purpose so as to not piss off the Hamsters.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 10:34 pm
A little light bedtime reading for you all.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 10:47 pm
@FreeDuck,
You're trying to tempt me, no?

I'll wait until tomorrow to look.
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 11:03 pm
@ossobuco,
It's woooorth iiiit. Ok, ok, wait until tomorrow. You'll want fresh eyes.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 11:09 pm
@FreeDuck,
Okaaaay, I'm gonna go look.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 11:28 pm
@FreeDuck,
Gee Willikers, FreeDuck, why didn't you just post the whole thing. It's only 24 pages. Yeah, yeah, it's a pdf file. I've never seen one divided into columns before, but scrolling and mousing around has never been more interesting.

Okay, I'm done with the wise remarks. I think they make some excellent points. It's difficult to believe a law would be written that gives more latitude to an individual than it does to a trained LEO, and the law seems to have been passed with great sense of purpose, but not a lot of in depth thought. If I had the patience to read the whole thing, I suspect there would be a number of points with which I could disagree. I guess I could print the whole schmeer and read it at leasure. As it was, I only toughed it out for the first four pages of text.
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 11:34 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:

If I had the patience to read the whole thing, I suspect there would be a number of points with which I could disagree.

I kind of doubt that actually. Thanks for taking the time to read it. They articulate some points that have been swimming around the edges of my brain since I started looking into this subject but had been unable to really express. Namely, how more latitude is granted to the untrained public at large than to the police we depend on for public safety, and the risk to bystanders and otherwise innocent folk when fearful people with guns (who else carries guns) decide to stand their ground.
FreeDuck
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 11:39 pm
From the publication I posted:
Quote:
The following is an illustration of the potentially serious problems
posed by changes in no-retreat laws. Imagine that a
nine−year−old girl is playing with her dolls outside her home.
In the house next door, a known drug-dealer, Red Rock, is selling
drugs when he notices a rival drug-dealer, Yellow Man, with
whom he had an earlier confrontation, coming down the street.
Red Rock retrieves a semiautomatic assault rifle to defend himself.
Shots are exchanged, and in the aftermath, the little girl,
once playing innocently, lies dead.
Both Red Rock and Yellow Man claim self-defense through
the unprecedented changes in the Castle Doctrine law. (Although
Red Rock was a criminal, a “prohibited person” can
possess a firearm for short periods of time in matters of self-defense.
So long as Red Rock did not own the firearm nor live in
the residence where the firearm was located, he could invoke
a legal defense under the expanded Castle Doctrine.)
If law enforcement cannot prove that Red Rock was engaged
in an unlawful activity and that his fear of imminent bodily harm
was unreasonable, he could claim self-defense. Likewise, assuming
Yellow Man could legally possess a weapon, he would
be justified in using a firearm in self-defense. This eliminates
any legal recourse, civil or criminal, for the violent death of an
innocent nine-year-old girl. Because the legislature provided
blanket immunity for “self-defense,” courts are faced with situations
in which a deadly defense may be legally justified, even
if negligently or recklessly executed.
On the other hand, if the Castle Doctrine had not been expanded,
Red Rock would have been required to retreat to an
area—such as his home—that was safe. If he had done so,
then innocent bystanders would have been spared even if the
confrontation had occurred.
Would this shooting have been avoided if the Castle Doctrine
were not expanded? Perhaps not, but the family of the victim
would have legal remedies, and the two perpetrators could be
held responsible for their actions rather than using the Castle
Doctrine as a shield from the criminal and civil justice systems.
Sadly, this scenario is not fictional. It is based on a 2006
homicide case in Miami-Dade Co
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 9 Apr, 2012 11:42 pm
How many people are now ready to agree with me that there is something seriously wrong with the American "Justice" System?

Just asking......
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Apr, 2012 12:08 am
@FreeDuck,
Well, thanks for the benefit of the doubt. As I said, I only read the first four pages of text.

Where I felt nudges of disagreement was more related to defense of property than the concept of chasing someone down and shooting them. I do agree that the idea of self defense has been stretched beyond the breaking point.

When you coming to NW New Mexico? We could hammer this out then, because it just isn't happening here. And what are you doing up so late? It must be crowding 2:00 a.m. in your area.
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Apr, 2012 07:47 am
@hawkeye10,
Not many who are rational would disagree that the sytem is flawed. The flaws that are clearly drawn here are with the police system, as well.

That being said, what constructive solution are you proposing? Can you name a better system? I think flaws might be found with most other systems.

This vague FL Stand Your Ground law must be changed if it means keeping scum like Hernandez from being locked down and/or tried for the crime he committed.
FreeDuck
 
  2  
Reply Tue 10 Apr, 2012 07:52 am
@roger,
I might finally get to take that cross country trip next summer. If so, you are definitely on my stop list. I was up late doing my taxes Sad, but that's all done now.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 10 Apr, 2012 10:29 am
@Ragman,
I have over the years mentioned several places to consentrate on fixing the system, but we are not really at the proposals for fixing stage, we are still trying to reach critical mass on the citizens understanding that there is a massive failure of the "justice" system.
FreeDuck
 
  3  
Reply Tue 10 Apr, 2012 04:10 pm
One more consequence of these laws: the likelihood of revenge killings when someone is able to kill a loved one and not be arrested. It certainly seems counter to the goal of law and order (and peace) in our communities.

Stand Your Ground and the Tulsa killings
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Apr, 2012 04:17 pm
@hawkeye10,

George Zimmerman attorneys quit as counsel

"Zimmerman's attorneys announced they have "lost contact" with Zimmerman and are withdrawing as counsel.

In a highly contentious press conference, attorneys Craig Sonner and Hal Uhrig announced they have withdrawn as counsel for George Zimmerman, who remains under intense scrutiny for the killing of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin."

Sonner and Uhrig say they have been unable to contact Zimmerman since Sunday, when he stopped returning their phone calls.

"He's not returning my messages not returning my texts not returning my emails. He won't even give me a collect call," Sonner said.

"Both attorneys repeatedly refused to reveal Zimmerman's location but insinuated that he is no longer in Florida. "You can stop looking in Florida. Look much further away than that," Uhrig said."
 

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