44
   

Florida's Stand your Ground law

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2012 09:55 am
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:

The case in which the kid was shot is an aberration and the person involved appears to be a very loose cannon who has just made life much harder for everybody out there who has some real need for concealed carry.

For all the world it sounds like he picked a fight with the kid, lost it, and then pulled out a gun and killed the kid. It wasn't that long ago in the US when a person who started a fist fight and lost it was expected to take whatever ass beating was involved like a man and not pull out a gun and kill somebody.


I don't think there's any evidence that the kid even fought back. At all. Unless Mr. Zimmerman had some sort of defensive wounds or sign of a struggle, I think it's pretty clear that he just cold capped him.

Cycloptichorn
FreeDuck
 
  2  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2012 10:23 am
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:

For all the world it sounds like he picked a fight with the kid, lost it, and then pulled out a gun and killed the kid. It wasn't that long ago in the US when a person who started a fist fight and lost it was expected to take whatever ass beating was involved like a man and not pull out a gun and kill somebody.


That's what it sounds like to me. I don't even think Florida's very loose law allows you to chase someone, pick a fight, and shoot them when it doesn't go your way.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  4  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2012 10:25 am
This update just makes it even worse:

Trayvon was on the phone with his girlfriend when Zimmerman caught up with him.

Definitely puts the lie to the "I got out of my car to check what street I was on and he jumped me" story.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2012 10:30 am
@FreeDuck,
Florida grand jury to investigate Trayvon Martin shooting

Quote:
A Florida grand jury will investigate the controversial shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin by a neighborhood watch volunteer in a Florida gated community.

... [quite a lot about the phone call]

Update at 11:21 a.m. ET: The Seminole County grand jury will take up the case April 10, according to a statement by State Attorney Norm Wolfinger.

He said that his office, with the help of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, is reviewing and collecting evidence in the case.

"I respectfully request that the public remain patient as this process moves forward," the statement said.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2012 10:34 am
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:
The case in which the kid was shot is an aberration and the person involved appears to be a very loose cannon who has just made life much harder for everybody out there who has some real need for concealed carry.
That is everyone who wishes to survive intact
the violent depredations of man or beast.




gungasnake wrote:
For all the world it sounds like he picked a fight with the kid, lost it, and then pulled out a gun and killed the kid. It wasn't that long ago in the US when a person who started a fist fight and lost it was expected to take whatever ass beating was involved like a man and not pull out a gun and kill somebody.
I 'm gonna presume innocence until proof of guilt.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2012 10:38 am
@Cycloptichorn,
gungasnake wrote:
The case in which the kid was shot is an aberration and the person involved appears to be a very loose cannon who has just made life much harder for everybody out there who has some real need for concealed carry.

For all the world it sounds like he picked a fight with the kid, lost it, and then pulled out a gun and killed the kid. It wasn't that long ago in the US when a person who started a fist fight and lost it was expected to take whatever ass beating was involved like a man and not pull out a gun and kill somebody.
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I don't think there's any evidence that the kid even fought back.
At all. Unless Mr. Zimmerman had some sort of defensive wounds or sign of a struggle,
I think it's pretty clear that he just cold capped him.
Cycloptichorn
So, if there is NO evidence,
then u presume the worst against the defendant in the Cycloworld, right ???????

From that, I dissent.





David
FreeDuck
 
  4  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2012 10:44 am
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:

The case in which the kid was shot is an aberration and the person involved appears to be a very loose cannon who has just made life much harder for everybody out there who has some real need for concealed carry.


I agree that this case appears to be egregious but it's not really an aberration. Since the law was passed cases of "justifiable homicide" have tripled in Florida, where concealed carry permits are ubiquitous. Many of them involve unarmed "assailants". Whether or not the person claiming self defense is arrested typically depends on their skin color, as in the example in my opening post, and another man who killed a man on a basketball court over a dispute about skateboarders.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  5  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2012 10:48 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

gungasnake wrote:
The case in which the kid was shot is an aberration and the person involved appears to be a very loose cannon who has just made life much harder for everybody out there who has some real need for concealed carry.

For all the world it sounds like he picked a fight with the kid, lost it, and then pulled out a gun and killed the kid. It wasn't that long ago in the US when a person who started a fist fight and lost it was expected to take whatever ass beating was involved like a man and not pull out a gun and kill somebody.
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I don't think there's any evidence that the kid even fought back.
At all. Unless Mr. Zimmerman had some sort of defensive wounds or sign of a struggle,
I think it's pretty clear that he just cold capped him.
Cycloptichorn
So, if there is NO evidence,
then u presume the worst against the defendant in the Cycloworld, right ???????


Yes, because an unarmed kid who weighed a hundred pounds less than his assailant is dead, and there's no evidence he was doing anything wrong at all. Not only that, his assailant was specifically ignoring police instructions by following and confronting the kid.

The burden of proof, when there's a dead body, should fall on the person who admittedly killed him, to prove that he was somehow in danger.

Quote:
From that, I dissent.


That's because you have fantasies of killing people yourself.

Cycloptichorn
Irishk
 
  2  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2012 10:48 am
@Cycloptichorn,
One account states Zimmerman had a broken/bleeding nose and a minor laceration on the back of his neck when the police showed up. I wonder if that's the excuse they'll use when explaining they 'had no grounds upon which to arrest him'.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  3  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2012 11:07 am
one comment that the shooter made in his 911 call disturbs me the most, he said, "they always get away with this"

not sure what the "this" is since the kid seemed to be out for a walk

i hate when people get away with that
OmSigDAVID
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2012 11:12 am
@Cycloptichorn,
gungasnake wrote:
The case in which the kid was shot is an aberration and the person involved appears to be a very loose cannon who has just made life much harder for everybody out there who has some real need for concealed carry.

For all the world it sounds like he picked a fight with the kid, lost it, and then pulled out a gun and killed the kid. It wasn't that long ago in the US when a person who started a fist fight and lost it was expected to take whatever ass beating was involved like a man and not pull out a gun and kill somebody.
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I don't think there's any evidence that the kid even fought back.
At all. Unless Mr. Zimmerman had some sort of defensive wounds or sign of a struggle,
I think it's pretty clear that he just cold capped him.
Cycloptichorn
OmSigDAVID wrote:
So, if there is NO evidence,
then u presume the worst against the defendant in the Cycloworld, right ???????
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Yes, because an unarmed kid who weighed a hundred pounds less than his assailant is dead, and there's no evidence he was doing anything wrong at all. Not only that, his assailant was specifically ignoring police instructions by following and confronting the kid.

The burden of proof, when there's a dead body, should fall on the person who admittedly killed him, to prove that he was somehow in danger.
I bet thay have it that way in North Korea n Cuba.
I bet u 'd like it there; y don 't u go n check ????


Quote:
From that, I dissent.
Cycloptichorn wrote:

That's because you have fantasies of killing people yourself.

Cycloptichorn
I guess your claims of knowledge about this case
r as good as your claims to be telepathic.

(Other than juvenile fantasizing about killing Marx & Engels, and Gavrilo Princip)
I have not fantasized about killing anyone.





David
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  4  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2012 11:17 am
@djjd62,
I think he said "these assholes always get away" indicating he was going to pursue him. Not sure why he determined the kids was an "asshole"... I guess walking slowly in the rain and becoming aware that somebody is following you makes you an asshole.

The guy pretty clearly was playing cop and I have no doubt that he was well aware of what the law would allow him to do if only he said the magic words.

What a complete waste of human life.
Cycloptichorn
 
  5  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2012 11:21 am
@FreeDuck,
FreeDuck wrote:

I think he said "these assholes always get away" indicating he was going to pursue him. Not sure why he determined the kids was an "asshole"... I guess walking slowly in the rain and becoming aware that somebody is following you makes you an asshole.


Ah, hello? He was a black kid with a hoodie on! That automatically makes you an asshole - in the minds of some.

Quote:
The guy pretty clearly was playing cop and I have no doubt that he was well aware of what the law would allow him to do if only he said the magic words.

What a complete waste of human life.


Yup. I hope this forces a greater discussion about the idiocy of the FL law.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2012 11:26 am

Did the decedent have any right to BE there ?????

Thay said it was a gated community; I infer that it was private property.

I hope this forces a greater discussion about the idiocy of trespassing on private property.





David
boomerang
 
  4  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2012 11:41 am
@OmSigDAVID,
He was staying with his dad, who lived there.
FreeDuck
 
  5  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2012 11:42 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:


Did the decedent have any right to BE there ?????

Yes he did.

Quote:
Thay said it was a gated community; I infer that it was private property.

He was a guest of one of the homeowners. He had every right to move freely on the property without getting shot.

OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2012 11:47 am
@FreeDuck,
OmSigDAVID wrote:


Did the decedent have any right to BE there ?????

Yes he did.

Quote:
Thay said it was a gated community; I infer that it was private property.
FreeDuck wrote:
He was a guest of one of the homeowners.
How do u know that ?
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2012 11:49 am
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:
He was staying with his dad, who lived there.
O, I see. Thank u. I did not know that.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2012 11:52 am

I dunno, but I suspect,
that he 'd probably remain intact, if he 'd identified himself
as a guest of a resident, with a legal right to be there.





David
Cycloptichorn
 
  4  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2012 11:53 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:


Did the decedent have any right to BE there ?????

Thay said it was a gated community; I infer that it was private property.

I hope this forces a greater discussion about the idiocy of trespassing on private property.

David


He was a guest of his father's fiancee, whose house was in that neighborhood. He wasn't trespassing. You could have found this information by reading even a single news story on the event, but couldn't be bothered to do so.

Stop being an asshole, David, and defending a probable murder.

What more,

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/20/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Quote:
A girl who overheard part of an incident involving Florida teenager Trayvon Martin can help prove he was killed "in cold blood," an attorney for Martin's family said Tuesday.

The girl, who was dating the 17-year-old, "completely blows (George) Zimmerman's absurd self-defense claim out of the water," Benjamin Crump said at a news conference.

He said the girl -- who does not wish to be identified -- "connects the dots" to describe what happened that day.

Martin was shot and killed while walking to his father's fiancee's house in Sanford after a trip to a nearby convenience store February 26.

Although she did not hear the shooting, minutes earlier Martin told her someone was following him, and that he was trying to get away, Crump said.

The girl heard someone ask Martin what he was doing, and heard Martin ask why the person was following him, Crump said. The girl then got the impression that there was an altercation in which the earpiece fell out of Martin's ear and the phone went out, Crump said.

The girl believed that someone had pushed Martin based on what she she heard and the fact that his voice changed.

The girl provided a recording to Crump which he will share with authorities, he said.

However, Crump said the Martin family does not trust the Sanford Police Department to investigate because of "the previous lies that they feel they've been told" by the department.

Federal prosecutors and the FBI will investigate the incident, which has sparked claims of racial profiling and widespread calls for charges against Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer who has acknowledged shooting Martin.

"The department will conduct a thorough and independent review of all of the evidence and take appropriate action at the conclusion of the investigation," Justice Department spokeswoman Xochitl Hinojosa said Monday in a written statement. "The department also is providing assistance to and cooperating with the state officials in their investigation into the incident."

A grand jury will also help investigate the death of the unarmed African-American teenager by Zimmerman, who is Latino.


There's not even a tiny bit of evidence that this small kid somehow overpowered a large man, who was following him in his car, got out and accosted him for no reason whatsoever, and then killed him.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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