Florida's Stand your Ground law

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

It was still good advice.

The kid would likely not have been shot, and Zimmerman wouldn't be facing the possibility of criminal charges.

Likewise he would not be dead today if the kid had followed the advise of his girl friend to run....do you have a point?

2 Replies

@hawkeye10,

Only that it was rather ridiculous to point out that it was the 911 operator that gave the advice.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

Only that it was rather ridiculous to point out that it was the 911 operator that gave the advice.

Bullshit, I pointed out that claim that he was told to leave this kid alone is a lie, as he was advised to do so by someone who had no authority to direct him. You, like far too many A2K'ers, tend to get very sloppy with your word choices when you think you have something to gain from it.

a 911 operator saying “Ok, we don’t need you to do that.” is very far indeed from the state telling Zimmerman not to pursue.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

That's an interesting take on reality hawkeye. According to the 911 call Zimmerman states that Trayvon IS running. And we know how his running ended up, don't we.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

911 operators have no authority to give directions to the people that call them?

That's an interesting take on their authority hawkeye. I'm sure most if not all emergency responders would disagree with you completely.

2 Replies

@parados,

Quote:

According to the 911 call Zimmerman states that Trayvon IS running

Ya, you are right.

0 Replies

@parados,

parados wrote:

911 operators have no authority to give directions to the people that call them?

That's an interesting take on their authority hawkeye. I'm sure most if not all emergency responders would disagree with you completely.

The answer is found in the law, not in the opinions of emergency responders.

1 Reply

@parados,

parados wrote:

911 operators have no authority to give directions to the people that call them?

That's an interesting take on their authority hawkeye.

According to YOU,
what authority do these telefone operators HAVE ???

Please tell us the SOURCE of that alleged "authority", if u will be so kind, Mr. Parados.

Over WHOM has that "authority" been granted ????????

parados wrote:

I'm sure most if not all emergency responders would disagree with you completely.

Assuming that is true,
of WHAT SIGNIFICANCE is their disagreement??????

Did u ask the Firemen, the EMTs, n the police about that?? (their legal depts.??)

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Looking around it appears to me that the state is playing games with the authority of 911 operators, on the one hand they want to allow the operators to act like they are agents for the state who have the authority to give direction, on the other hand they never actually confer this authority through the only means possible...the law.

Not that I am anymore ever shocked to see the state playing games at the expense of us citizens, mind you.

There is this

Quote:

Oklahoma news media have the compelling story of a shotgun-toting 18-year-old mother who killed an intruder on New Year's Eve after a 911 operator told her, "Do what you have to do to protect your baby."
.
.
.
McKinley said she asked the dispatcher, "I've got two guns in my hand -- is it OK to shoot him if he comes in this door? I'm here by myself with my infant baby, can I please get a dispatcher out here immediately?"

"I can't tell you that you can do that but you do what you have to do to protect your baby," the dispatcher said

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/01/okla-teen-mom-kills-intruder-/1#.T3iiJmF2Sf4

2 Replies

@hawkeye10,

I 'm pretty sure that there was no legal effect
upon Mr. Z from the fone operator.

That is the function of a court of law
(more particularly: a court of equity; thay r probably united, in Florida).

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

I 'm pretty sure that there was no legal effect
upon Mr. Z from the fone operator.

That is the function of a court of law
(more particularly: a court of equity; thay r probably united, in Florida).

on the other hand 911 operators have immunity as if they are agents of the state, and the state routinely uses 911 recordings to get around the Constitution prohibition on self incrimination, as if they are statements to the state. This 911 business seems very murky legally.

2 Replies

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
McKinley said she asked the dispatcher, "I've got two guns in my hand -- is it OK to shoot him if he comes in this door? I'm here by myself with my infant baby, can I please get a dispatcher out here immediately?"

"I can't tell you that you can do that but you do what you have to do to protect your baby," the dispatcher said
Its a little obvious that the dispatcher was going CYA all the way, Hawkeye.

David

0 Replies

@hawkeye10,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

I 'm pretty sure that there was no legal effect
upon Mr. Z from the fone operator.

That is the function of a court of law
(more particularly: a court of equity; thay r probably united, in Florida).

hawkeye10 wrote:

on the other hand 911 operators have immunity as if they are agents of the state,

"Immunity" from WHAT, Hawkeye?????? Is Mr. Z gonna sue him??

What do u claim that the "agent of the state" has authority to DO??
Bind the State in contract??

Mr. Z was perfectly within his rights to follow anyone he damn pleased,
unless he d been served with a judicial injunction,
or at least a temporary restraining order.
I 've never been admitted to practice in Florida,
but there is a reasonable limit to how alien their procedures can possibly BE.

David

2 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

Immunity" from WHAT,

Claims of negligence on all acts performed in the line of 911 duty.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Isn't it reasonable to expect that someone take the advice of the emergency services? They may not have legal powers to order someone to do it, but if they don't take the advice given, questions need to be asked.

I would need a damn good reason to ignore the advice given to me by the emergency services.

Then again, I don't live in Florida, if I were to murder someone of a different ethnicity, I couldn't rely on the police to pervert the course of justice.

2 Replies

@izzythepush,

Quote:

Isn't it reasonable to expect that someone take the advice of the emergency services? They may not have legal powers to order someone to do it, but if they don't take the advice given, questions need to be asked.

Zimmerman almost certainly has more law enforcement training than does the 911 operator....so why would he take any of her advise seriously?

2 Replies

@hawkeye10,

He certainly knows how to get away with murder.

2 Replies

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

He certainly knows how to get away with murder.

I dunno if he is an expert in that,
but it looks a lot like proper self defense, qua Martin,
if u reason it out.

David

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

He certainly knows how to get away with murder.

Good point...he knows what the right words are, and unless the state can prove that the facts of what happened between these two guys are contrary to what he says they are there is nothing that can be done about it. I dont approve of lying, but I do approve of being well versed in the law before saying anything to an agent of the state, as the state can not be trusted to seek either truth or justice.

0 Replies

@hawkeye10,

DAVID wrote:

Immunity" from WHAT,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Claims of negligence on all acts performed in the line of 911 duty.

Is the dispatcher in peril of tortious litigation?????

1 Reply

Florida's Stand your Ground law

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