44
   

Florida's Stand your Ground law

 
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 03:30 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
After you've changed your diaper, Om, could you tell me again that tale about the lady who seduced a young Dave?
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 03:31 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

@ Cy and JTT: From the link posted by Cy I found this at the very top of the page.

Quote:
If murder is committed within the borders of a state, that state has jurisdiction. Similarly, if the crime is committed in the District of Columbia, the D.C Superior Court (the equivalent of a state court in the District) retains jurisdiction, though in some cases involving U.S. government property or personnel, the federal courts may have exclusive jurisdiction.[1] If the victim is a federal official, an ambassador, consul or other foreign official under the protection of the United States, or if the crime took place on federal property or involved crossing state lines, or in a manner that substantially affects interstate commerce or national security, then the federal government also has jurisdiction. If a crime is not committed within any state, then Federal jurisdiction is exclusive: examples include naval or U.S.-flagged merchant vessels in international waters and U.S. military bases worldwide. In addition, murder by a member of the United States military anywhere in the world is a violation of Article 118 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice and can result in a servicemember suspected of murder being tried by a general court-martial. In cases where a murder involves both state and federal jurisdiction, the offender can be tried and punished separately for each crime without raising issues of double jeopardy, unless the court believes that the new prosecution is merely a "sham" forwarded by the prior prosecutor.[2]


So I will ask again, why is the FBI involved. This crime didn't take place on federal land and Trayvon wasn't a federal officer, employee or an ambassador.


I believe there were questions as to how the local police department, in light of all the information that is available, could have screwed the situation up so badly; and perhaps suspicion that their actions were racially motivated. I believe the Feds do have jurisdiction to look into that.

I just wanted to point out that the Feds can charge someone for murder, if the conditions were right.

Cycloptichorn
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 04:11 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Of course, Zimmerman didn't stay in his car in the first place.
OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 04:20 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:
Of course, Zimmerman didn't stay in his car in the first place.
Yeah, but that 's really not so bad.
He had no duty in law, nor in morality to do so.

If it were me, in my torpid languor,
I 'd be satisfied to tell the police
of a suspected burglar casing the place.
I 'd not go chasing him, but it is neither illegal nor immoral
to follow and to confront a suspected intended burglar.
I don't believe that police have any jurisdiction to stop anyone from doing that.

Freedom of speech; u can ask someone what he is doing,
as long as u don't touch him.

I don 't recommend doing that; I don't know anyone who does it.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 04:24 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
After you've changed your diaper, Om, could you tell me again that tale about the lady who seduced a young Dave?
Which 1, J ?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 04:37 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Which 1, J ?


Why, the one that is full, of course!
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 04:37 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
The information as it has been presented is this. He stayed put while the police showed up, was taken into custody and questioned. After he was questioned the police let him go. In the time since the shooting a Grand Jury has been convened. It’s not as if he has gotten away with anything. I have a feeling the Grand Jury is going to find him guilty of the shooting and not following the letter of the law when it comes to the Stand Your Ground Law.

He should have stayed in his car and for that I find him guilty of involuntary man slaughter.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 04:44 pm
@Baldimo,
This is a much much more serious problem than I first envisioned.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 04:46 pm
David says:

Quote:
I used to think that eventually, because of them, communist tanks
woud come rolling down my street and I 'd have to put a round
into my mother 's head to rescue her from them, Kennedy's friends


Did you bother to ask your mother if she wanted you to murder her to "save" her from imaginary communist tanks and the Kennedys, or did you decide you'd murder her without asking her, David? I can see why she said she thought you came from some other planet. 50 years of paranoid fantasies. What a wasted life.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 05:07 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

The information as it has been presented is this. He stayed put while the police showed up, was taken into custody and questioned. After he was questioned the police let him go. In the time since the shooting a Grand Jury has been convened. It’s not as if he has gotten away with anything.


He sure as hell isn't sitting in jail, like any other person who shot someone should be!

Quote:
He should have stayed in his car and for that I find him guilty of involuntary man slaughter.


Absolutely agree.

Nice to see you posting again btw.

Cycloptichorn
OmSigDAVID
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 05:20 pm
@JTT,
I don 't understand.
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 05:29 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Thanks Cy. Work and family keep me busy. 14 year old in high school who plays the viola, 11 year old who is into sports and Tae Kwon Do.

0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 05:55 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
David says:

DAVID wrote:
I used to think that eventually, because of them, communist tanks
woud come rolling down my street and I 'd have to put a round
into my mother 's head to rescue her from them, Kennedy's friends
MontereyJack wrote:
Did you bother to ask your mother if she wanted you to murder her to "save" her from imaginary communist tanks and the Kennedys, or did you decide you'd murder her without asking her, David?
Its possible that we might have discussed that, Jack;
we sure discussed the horror of communist advancement thru the world.
I have no specific memory of discussing that point with her.
It was our nature to be OPTIMISTS.
My mother and I had a good mental rapport. I woud not do that
to ANYONE without consent, and certainly not to my own mother.
I wish that my mother had lived long enuf to see the death of communism in 1991.
I 'd have loved to have celebrated that with her. It was a wonderful moment!

I thawt that I was clear in posting that I 'd need to do that,
when communist tanks were rolling down my street,
not before that time.

I dunno how many "imaginary communist tanks" the Reds had,
but thay had and actively used a lot of real ones. Deny it if u will.


MontereyJack wrote:
I can see why she said she thought you came from some other planet.
Yeah; she said that several times,
with vocal inflection for emfasis!




MontereyJack wrote:
50 years of paranoid fantasies.
No fantasies; the commies did it in too many places already.
I infer that, according to U,
thay did NOT wanna conquer the world, right, Jack ???????
Do o openly admit to favoring communist slavery ?



MontereyJack wrote:
What a wasted life.
No. It was not wasted. I had a lot of fun. That 's what counts.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 06:04 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

The information as it has been presented is this. He stayed put while the police showed up, was taken into custody and questioned. After he was questioned the police let him go. In the time since the shooting a Grand Jury has been convened. It’s not as if he has gotten away with anything. I have a feeling the Grand Jury is going to find him guilty of the shooting and not following the letter of the law when it comes to the Stand Your Ground Law.

He should have stayed in his car and for that I find him guilty of involuntary man slaughter.
Chances r that the law of Florida
does not define getting out of your car (nor of speaking freely) as being "involuntary man slaughter". That seems unlikely.





David
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 06:15 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
That maybe true, but he was instructed to stay in his car. He didn't do that and put himself into a bad position. Now a kid is dead and the world thinks hes a racist. I would think that not listening to the cops led him to commit involuntary man slaughter.
OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 06:35 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:
That maybe true, but he was instructed to stay in his car.
By WHAT authority, Mr. Baldimo??
Do the police in Florida have jurisdiction
to make citizens stay in their cars?????? any more than the fire dept. or a meter maid, or a shoe salesman ??

I thawt we lived in a free country??
Most of the time, as a general rule: the police r not the boss.



Baldimo wrote:
He didn't do that and put himself into a bad position.
He was within his rights to get out of his car.
He was within his rights of free speech to speak to decedent.
He alleges that decedent perpetrated violence upon him.
It can be true.



Baldimo wrote:
Now a kid is dead and the world thinks hes a racist.
Mr. Z is not responsible for what anyone in any country thinks.
What the world "thinks" is of no legal nor moral consequence.
In other words: so what ??



Baldimo wrote:
I would think that not listening to the cops led him to commit involuntary man slaughter.
Will u show, by explicit citation to the applicable law,
how he had a duty to "listen" to police ?
or any duty to OBAY them ????

I don 't believe that u r able to do that.





David
Thomas
 
  5  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 06:47 pm
Today, Newt Gingrich weighed in on the issue. He said that while this is a tragedy, it shouldn't be used to roll back stand-your-ground laws. The culprit here wasn't standing his ground with his gun, he was chasing someobdy down with it.

It's a reasonable point to make, but I wonder why Gingrich stopped there. I wonder why he didn't encourage young Blacks to carry guns as they shop for groceries in the future. After all, the vigilante committed exactly the kind of tyranny that the 2nd Amendment was supposed to make difficult. What a marvellous teachable moment in gun rights for oppressed minorities! What a pity that it's being wasted by their putative champions!
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 07:31 pm
If I were a black man and living in a place where profiling is rife, I would get a permit and pack iron all day long.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 07:48 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:
Today, Newt Gingrich weighed in on the issue. He said that while this is a tragedy,
it shouldn't be used to roll back stand-your-ground laws.
He 's my guy.
He 's very candid n forthright.
Very, very intelligent, lucid mind.
He ofen speaks without notes.
I just hope that he will overcome Romney.




Thomas wrote:
The culprit here wasn't standing his ground with his gun, he was chasing someobdy down with it.

It's a reasonable point to make, but I wonder why Gingrich stopped there. I wonder why he didn't encourage young Blacks to carry guns as they shop for groceries in the future. After all, the vigilante committed exactly the kind of tyranny that the 2nd Amendment was supposed to make difficult. What a marvellous teachable moment in gun rights for oppressed minorities! What a pity that it's being wasted by their putative champions!
I have always advocated it for everyone that wishes to remain alive and to defend his property,
without distinction of race.





David
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  4  
Reply Fri 23 Mar, 2012 07:56 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
He alleges that decedent perpetrated violence upon him.
It can be true.


That's pretty much grasping at straws in this one. Zimmerman basically picked a fight and was in the process of getting his ass beat in over it and pulled out a gun and killed a kid ten years his junior and eliminated any shot at the kid being able to tell his side of the story. Not too many people are going to feel sorry for him.

 

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