Can we just !/$$!?$?! leave now?

@JPB,

JPB wrote:

Let's discuss the impact of the US leaving Afghanistan.

I think Americans would be best served by discussing what they've learned from this really stupid escapade.

Will they listen to professionals/academics in the field next time they consider this kind of idiocy? Do they realize how far they have fallen in the eyes of people of many other countries? Will they speak up to their leaders if something like this is considered again? Will they truly reflect on the missteps of this and the previous administration?

I believe this is one area where Ron Paul is more on the ball than most.

2 Replies

@dlowan,

Many soldiers are coming home from Afghanistan with PTS; a veteran who lived in Gilroy killed his sister and himself recently. They think he also killed his mother. Many soldiers are also committing suicide at extremely high rates. What more do Americans have to pay for the mistake of GW Bush?

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@JTT,

JTT wrote:

...It doesn't matter if I'm Canadian, Russian, American, French, Swiss, Nicaraguan, Vietnamese, Chinese, ... .

Cannot agree. It does matter, since if one is American, one has more VESTED interest in the policies of the U.S. If one is of another nationality, one might have some ulterior motive for one's thinking about America.

For example, if one is Canadian, then one might be very hostile to the U.S. for no other reason than the number of talented Canadians that go to the U.S. to further their careers. That individual might see the U.S. as one big vacuum cleaner, sucking up all the Canadian talent. Which means that anyone who is hostile to the U.S., might have some ulterior motive, regardless of the rhetoric he/she speaks.

So, if one is just not an American, I cannot give credence to any criticisms about the U.S.

Also, if one is from a Commonwealth nation, I would think any criticisms towards the U.S. could also be viewed as ingratitude, since the U.S. did prevent Commonwealth nations from being cast out of the Commonwealth, since Mother Britain would not exist right now, if it was not for the good old U.S.A.
God Bless America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

JPB wrote:

Let's discuss the impact of the US leaving Afghanistan.

... Do they realize how far they have fallen in the eyes of people of many other countries? ...

This matters? Many people resent that the U.S. as a superpower, in my opinion, because it is human nature to resent that which is stronger/bigger/wealthier than oneself.

Perhaps, the U.S. should just sell Girl Scout cookies to the rest of the world?

1 Reply

@Foofie,

It seems to matter to quite a few. Not that I entirely understand that, but it is something I see come up in discussions.

America's reputation with other countries was certainly the issue that the government mentioned when it had its initial fit over Wikileaks.

I don't think resentment is the correct emotion to describe the feeling, though it may certainly be the case in some countries.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

Our reputation does matter, internationally. Many times, we want countries to act in a manner that may not be in their own self-interest. If we are seen as a respectable and moral world leader, they will be far more likely to do this than if we are seen as a merely powerful world leader, who says one thing and does another.

There's a power that comes with wearing a white hat - we shouldn't squander that power.

Cycloptichorn

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@dlowan,

dlowan wrote:

Aaaaaarrrrggghhhhh. I guess we can only hope that indigenous forces eventually lead to their downfall and a happy outcome for Afghanistan in the long term.

meanwhile, I guess there are going to be many refugees and a lot of suffering.

I agree. I simply don't see what an additional 2-3 years there will do to improve the likelihood of a happier outcome. We are quickly being perceived (with reason) as occupiers. I've been reading a number of opinions from a wide range of political spectra and see very few advocates for keeping to the original timeline.

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Quote:

Karzai once again reiterated that he would hold the US accountable and make sure the soldier is brought to justice.

“This has been going on for too long. This is by all means the end of the rope here,'' Karzai told reporters at the end of the meeting.

“This form of activity, this behavior, cannot be tolerated. It's past, past, past the time,'' Karzai added.

He said he will relay the leaders' concern that more than one soldier was involved in the massacre, and he will make sure the allegation is investigated.

Karzai met the elders a day after he demanded foreign forces pull back from Afghan villages. He also called for the full transfer of security responsibility to Afghan forces be completed one year ahead of the announced schedule in 2013.

Karzai said US President Barack Obama called him after the announcement.

“Yesterday, I said clearly that the Americans should leave our villages,'' Karzai said. "This morning, Obama called regarding this issue. He asked, 'Did you announce this?' I said, 'Yes, I announced it'."

Karzai added: “I insist on this issue. The fight is not in the villages, not in the houses of Afghanistan.''

The two presidents agreed to discuss accelerating the security transfer during the NATO summit on Afghanistan in Chicago in May. Al Jazeera

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@JPB,

Quote:

accelerating

?

Why are we even there? As I've said many times before, staying longer is a lose-lose for the US.

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@JPB,

Quote:

Karzai once again reiterated that he would hold the US accountable and make sure the soldier is brought to justice.

when they announced that the accused soldier had been taken out of Afghanistan by the U.S., my heart just plummeted

1 Reply

@Foofie,

What??!!??
Animosity? The brain drain ended when the US fucked up the economy. Now it's the other way around. If people want to move, great. Leaves more opportunities for the ones that stay behind.
As for saving the commonwealth.. huh?
Jesus you have a big head and nothing going on in it.

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Hate to break it to you Cyclo, I think the white hat's already been squandered. Maybe you can get it back one day, but for now, that boat has sailed.

1 Reply

@Ceili,

Ceili wrote:

Hate to break it to you Cyclo, I think the white hat's already been squandered. Maybe you can get it back one day, but for now, that boat has sailed.

Oh, I don't know about that. International polling of attitudes towards America is far higher than most countries that are out there. And the highest out of all the world super-powers.

And the truth is that, for the most part, the world still does what we want them to, without too much bellicose language on our part.

Cycloptichorn

4 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Yup, and when you see a mob burning a president in effigy, it's not generally the french one. When I travel, people always ask if I'm American. When I say no, there is an audible release. They may do what you say, but it's not because of the white hat, more so it's the bomb etc. And I'd venture, there's plenty who don't give a damn what you say either. As a case in point, Syria or China, or Russia...

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@Ceili,

Add Iran, North Korea, and many other countries.

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@ehBeth,

The Kuwaiti government apparently insisted that he not be held there.

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@Ceili,

Ceili wrote:

Yup, and when you see a mob burning a president in effigy, it's not generally the french one. When I travel, people always ask if I'm American. When I say no, there is an audible release. They may do what you say, but it's not because of the white hat, more so it's the bomb etc. And I'd venture, there's plenty who don't give a damn what you say either. As a case in point, Syria or China, or Russia...

Russia and China are world super-powers of their own. We can't force them to do anything. But I would bet that in international polling, the US is more trusted and respected than either China or Russia.

I believe it's a combination of the two - power and respect. We're not saints, but we're not devils either, and we have had a history of coming to the aid of nations who need it - both in terms of financial largesse and aid (nobody gives away nearly as much in foreign aid as we do) and in military terms (ask, say, Libyans, if they like us or not).

Of course, we could and should work harder to hold to the standards we supposedly set for others. But the situation isn't nearly as bad as some would make out.

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Perhaps, but the white hat is long gone. Just saying.
And while some may think you're more trust worthy, nobody want's to turn their back on the world bank.. China. They have just as much influence, if not more.

2 Replies

@Ceili,

At Answers.yahoo.com on How powerful is the US of A?

Quote:

Best Answer - Chosen by Voters

To understand just how dominant the United States is today, one needs to look at each of the standard components of national power in succession. In the military arena, the United States is poised to spend more on defense in 2003 than the next 15-20 biggest spenders combined. The United States has overwhelming nuclear superiority, the world's dominant air force, the only truly blue-water navy, and a unique capability to project power around the globe. And its military advantage is even more apparent in quality than in quantity. The United States leads the world in exploiting the military applications of advanced communications and information technology and it has demonstrated an unrivaled ability to coordinate and process information about the battlefield and destroy targets from afar with extraordinary precision. Washington is not making it easy for others to catch up, moreover, given the massive gap in spending on military research and development (R&D), on which the United States spends three times more than the next six powers combined. Looked at another way, the United States currently spends more on military R&D than Germany or the United Kingdom spends on defense in total.

These are not just facts about the current system; they are recognized as such by the major players involved. As a result, no global challenge to the United States is likely to emerge for the foreseeable future. No country, or group of countries, wants to maneuver itself into a situation in which it will have to contend with the focused enmity of the United States.

Magnanimity and restraint in the face of temptation are tenets of successful statecraft that have proved their worth from classical Greece onward. Standing taller than leading states of the past, the United States has unprecedented freedom to do as it pleases. It can play the game for itself alone or for the system as a whole; it can focus on small returns today or larger ones tomorrow. If the administration truly wants to be loved as well as feared, the policy answers are not hard to find.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

I have no doubt the USA is the most powerful nation on earth. The idea of the US riding in on a big white stallion saving the day, is from a bygone era. You are not the heroes you make yourself out to be. Sure you can pretty much do what you want, but is that a good thing? Your past is not spotless and memories are long. The USA is not THE morally authority and for this reason you are despised nearly as much as the nations you despise.
I don't hate the USA, but many people do and much of it is justified. Polls and anonymous voters might tell you what you want to hear, but it won't tell you everything. You must realize that it is not a popularity contest.
Basically, I'm saying the idea of the white hat is ridiculous. Yes you're powerful and some people like you, they really, really like you, but not everyone does. Thus things like 9-11 happen and probably will continue to happen, maybe not on home turf but these attacks aren't over. Why, because the biggest kid on the playground is often a bully and many people like to see the bully kicked down a peg or two. And face it, much of your foreign policy has been to be the bully. Just ask JTT, he'll give you a list.
Take the Kony 2012 thing, no where in the "documentary" does it say that the USA is the major gun runner in Africa and as for good works, you give less in aid than you make from selling weapons.
That's not exactly altruism...

3 Replies

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