Can we just !/$$!?$?! leave now?

If we leave, I would think there would be Afghan refugees coming to the U.S. or elsewhere, since they could not survive in the country. In ten years or so, PBS programs could highlight a few successful Afghan refugees for the liberal set to get excited over. America's franchise opportunities await refugee families!

Well, yes.

There's nothing wrong when it's about self-defense based on international laws.

Too often, the US takes the laws into its own hands regardless of what we have agreed to with our allies.

The leaders of international terrorist organizations who kill Americans without any regard to the laws are legal targets for our country for assassination.

I met an afghan prince many years ago, or so I thought. He dated a friend of mine. This was early sixties, in Los Angeles. The three of us went to some hollywood show (by definition not my idea, theater engages me but more often aggravates me, even back then) and he was pulled up on the stage and made a fool. She liked him but it didn't last, she being very virginal at that time.

I think he was probably not a poser re who he was. I wonder about him once in a while.

War without killing … maybe something to think about for the 22nd century …

It's not that easy to just leave. The Afghanistan war, unlike Iraq, was supported by NATO members and withdrawing troops has be a joint decision. Although they agreed upon to leave Afghanistan by 2014, it will probably take longer than expected.

The amok run of an US soldier will probably have renewed violence escalating. The Taliban have vouched already to retaliate against Americans - civilians and military alike.

The United States cannot leave Afghanistan, even if they wanted to!

Cripes, I hope you are wrong. I think NATO countries want out.
We're busy slip sliding into Syria.
Keep the 'panzers' busy seems to be the choice on any questionaire.

Of course all NATO countries want out, but they cannot leave without having some sort of government in order and infrastructure in place. The Afghan people were just as much a victim in this as anyone else, it's the Taliban who terrorize the country and the world.

We (meaning all NATO members) owe it to the Afghan people to restore a halfway functioning country.

It's not gonna happen.

BS - we can leave any time we want, and if they want to have a cohesive and functioning country, they can do it themselves.

The truth is that when we leave, tribal leaders - some good, some bad - will take control again and the country will go back to producing copious amounts of ganja and heroin, just like they always have. I really could care less, because this is what the populace wants. There is no internal, cultural drive for things like democracy, equality, women's rights. None of that will last a single second beyond the time we force it to.

The truth is that the country's leaders harbored some terrorists that attacked us, we went in and fucked them up for doing so, and then didn't have the decency to just leave afterward - in large part b.c Bush took his eye off the ball by attacking Iraq, and the fact that we've spent so much time and money there became THE reason to stay. They pose us no threat and will not in the future, so **** it - let's cut and run and let them have what they want.

Cycloptichorn

I agree 100%. The longer we stay, the more we'll create dissension against our country as "occupiers" and killers. We're the best reason for Taliban recruitment; bin Laden could not have done a better job.

What else is new.

They slaughter Afghan citizens by the score.

Or they might pose us danger from hate.
It is all incredibly stupid. We seem to have learned nothing.
Apparently no one in the command structure can empathize with villagers hit by war.
All or most of us here are typing in secure rooms.

Our military action in Afghanistan began as a punitive expedition not only against al-Qaeda but the Taliban.

After 9/11, the US announce that if national governments support terrorist attacks against the US they will be considered terrorists and subject to the same counter-attacks.

(For some reason this doctrine has never been applied to Iran or Pakistan)

The Taliban were given every opportunity to turn bin-Laden and his men over to us and they refused, and so a significant objective of the mission was to drive them out of power and into the mountains if not oblivion.

Although bin-Laden escaped the mission was largely successful in that al-Qaeda was greatly weakened and driven out of their sanctuary in Afghanistan and the Taliban were driven from power.

The second objective of the mission has been far less successful. Our goal has been to leave a roughly Democratic Afghanistan that will not have reason to welcome the Taliban back and can defeat them when they try to return to power.

After 11 years the Afghan people are better off than when the Taliban ruled, but they are government by a corrupt cadre of incompetents and they are in no way prepared to defeat the Taliban. During that period many NATO soldiers (predominately American) have lost their lives or been seriously maimed.

Whether we leave now or in 2014, the Afghan government will be no more honest and competent than it is today and the Afghanis will be no better prepared to defeat the Taliban.

The main argument for remaining there is to prevent Afghanistan from ever becoming another haven for terrorists. Unfortunately, this will not be accomplished by 2014 and if stick around until it is, it's likely to be another ten years.

I hate the thought of pulling out and rendering the sacrifices of our men and women in uniform essentially pointless, but that's what is going to happen in 2014 when we pull out and declare Mission Accomplished, so why rack up any more casualties between now and then? Especially when those casualties are being caused by the very people whose lives we are trying to better, and the security forces who are supposed to be allied with us.

One soldier, with three tours of duty in Iraq and a serious head wound sustained there, cracks and goes on a heinous, murderous rampage. It's horrible and the Afghan people are rightly horrified, but attacking and killing American or other NATO personnel will not be serving justice in any way. They will not receive much sympathy from the American people (as a whole) if they do.

What we need to find out is not how the crazed soldier left the base unnoticed but what idiot cleared him for a fourth overseas war tour; this time in Afghanistan.

Saving peoples around the world from the brutal tyranny of maniacal theocrats and despots is something I support. Nation building is not.

Help them overthrow the dictators and then leave them to build their nation as they see fit. We cannot build the character of a nation's people. If they cannot rebuild their country as a safe and prosperous place in which to live, we're not going to transform them. Provide them with support from afar but only if they seem headed in the right direction.

In the case of Afghanistan, we did a great service to the Afghans in ridding them of the brutal yoke of the Taliban. Our mission should have been strictly military. Severely degrade or wipe out the Taliban forces and then pull out with the warning that we will not wait for another 9/11 to return with force if we detect terrorist training camps reconstituting, and if there is another 9/11 we will return with a greater vengeance than before.

I see us as Big Foot Fat Money.

I've read articles from years ago stating that the US captured control of Pakistan's nukes long ago and basically has them by the balls. Iran is too powerful and controls too much of the worlds' oil supply for us to attack, when they haven't been shown to participate in anything other than minor annoying levels of activity against us.

Besides, our economic sanctions are ******* crippling them. That combined with the force of our culture will destroy them in time.



Well said.

Cycloptichorn

This discussion should have taken place here years ago.

Why (finally) now?

I agree that "we" should leave Afghanistan (I am including my own country in the "we", this doesn't just concern the US & the "we" applies to Iraq, too ) .... but not before we fix the messes we've made. Before making reasonable reparations.
If such a goal is actually possible.
How do we fix a tragedy for the ordinary citizens of Afghanistan who have suffered so much as a result of our actions? (As if they didn't have enough hardship to deal with already.)
"We" have behaved like abominable thug invaders & occupiers , with absolutely no reasonable justification.

And please, please, can this be the last episode of the endless war staged by the US & its allies!
Surely we have disgraced ourselves enough?

I dunno. It sure is different
than the raucus debate qua the war in Vietnam.
This is by quiet, bipartisan consent.

I guess thay r obsessed with imposing a democracy there.

I wonder if he will beat it with an insanity defense; some head injury.