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The Winding Road To The Republican Nomination For President

 
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 02:47 am
Now here's an intersting take on whether Romney won or lost by winning in Michigan. Apparently Obama is now 18 points ahead of Romney in Michigan after the Republican primary. 18 points in a swing state that was a toss-up a month ago.

NY Times editorial today:

Quote:
Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum fought each other to nearly a draw in the Michigan primary and may actually have to split its delegates, but together they may have lost Michigan for their party by running campaigns that were completely disconnected from the lives of middle-class voters and pushed ever farther to the right margins of American politics.

Related News
Romney Regains Stride With Victories in 2 States (February 29, 2012)
A month ago, the state was rated a tossup in this November’s general election. But after voters got a taste of the Republican field, Michigan seems to be on President Obama’s side of the ledger, along with Wisconsin. Both elected Republican governors in 2010, but large numbers of blue-collar voters have turned away from the party after realizing how little regard it has for their interests.

Mr. Romney was unable to generate any enthusiasm in the state where he was born and where his family is well known. In fact, polls around the country have suggested that Republican primary voters are not thrilled with any of their choices so far. He won largely because of Mr. Santorum’s blunders, including his inexplicable decision to denigrate the value of college and to declare his contempt for John F. Kennedy and the Constitution’s mandate for an absolute separation of church and state.

Mr. Romney’s victory speech Tuesday night was unlikely to do much about the Republican electorate’s disappointment. Like his lightweight stump speeches around Michigan, he rattled off a long list of things he opposes: taxes (mostly on the rich), government spending (mostly on the poor), health care reform (for everyone). There was next to nothing about what he supports, with the exception of the Keystone XL oil pipeline. A blue-collar family that has suffered a job loss (or fears one) heard nothing that offered the promise of a more stable, hopeful future.

“We will abolish, finally, the death tax,” he announced. That’s great news to those with estates of $5 million or more. It was a slap in the face to those whose unemployment insurance is about to run out because his party has insisted on getting tough with jobless government freeloaders.

Middle-class voters did learn that Mr. Romney still opposes the auto-industry bailout that has saved the jobs of more than a million workers in Michigan and the region. (He called it a giveaway to unions, ignoring worker sacrifices that are well-known in the upper Midwest.) They learned how the 14 percent of Michigan residents who have no health insurance would be left on their own once the candidates get a chance to repeal health care reform. And they learned that Mr. Santorum is far more concerned about the menace of birth control and liberal college professors than he is about their struggles.

If they listened to Mr. Obama’s fiery speech to the United Auto Workers on Tuesday, however, they heard a very different set of priorities: using government action to bring an entire industry back to life, raising taxes on the rich to avoid cutting programs for the poor, keeping insurance companies from cutting off the sick.

“Since when are hard-working men and women who are putting in a hard day’s work every day — since when are they special interests?” the president asked, addressing the contempt for labor demonstrated by the candidates and several Republican governors in the Midwest. The answer explains why Mr. Obama was up by 18 points over Mr. Romney in a recent Michigan poll, and why Republican leaders are worried about their presidential field.

Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 05:17 am
@Cycloptichorn,
I agree about severing our aid to Israel. They don't need, we don't need the expense, and it not only does not help anyone politically, it hurts us internationally. You grossly mistake my attittude toward Mr. Obama and his relations to Israel, though. I criticize him for being to cozy with them, which i think he is only doing because it's an election year. That's how we got entangled with them in the first place--Truman was facing a tough re-election campaign, so he recognized the state of Israel. Eisenhower who succeeded him took a hard line with the Israelis, and it did him no harm.

I agree, let's get out of the mess, and end our relationship with Israel.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 05:45 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

I agree about severing our aid to Israel. They don't need, we don't need the expense, and it not only does not help anyone politically, it hurts us internationally.


Not as much as it hurts the Palestinians. Israel has the most powerful military in the region, they don't need anyone's help to keep their borders secure.

Israel, like Saudi Arabia is a good customer for the West's military industry. Also they're a good testing ground for various weapons that couldn't be tried out anywhere else.

How much of an influence does the weapon's industry have on the West's international relations. Maybe we should start banning sales to non Nato countries, not including like Australia that would have been in Nato but for geography. Just a suggestion.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 05:48 am
@izzythepush,
them aussies got all those boomerangs and didgeridoos, i don't think they need our weapons


and lets not forget the boxing kangaroos
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 05:51 am
@izzythepush,
Not only is your post not relevant to the Republican nominating process and the coming national election here, it is a non sequitur to my response to Cyclo.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 06:16 am
@Setanta,
Maybe, but I think if we started following the money trail we could start to iron out a few more international problems. I'll shut up now.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 07:53 am
@MontereyJack,
I stayed up too late last night reading this.

http://nymag.com/news/features/gop-primary-heilemann-2012-3/

Quote:
The Lost Party
The strangest primary season in memory reveals a GOP that’s tearing itself apart.



buncha random snips from a 7 page article

Quote:
The transfiguration of the GOP isn’t only about ideology, however. It is also about demography and temperament, as the party has grown whiter, less well schooled, more blue-collar, and more hair-curlingly populist. The result has been a party divided along the lines of culture and class: Establishment versus grassroots, secular versus religious, upscale versus downscale, highfalutin versus hoi polloi. And with those divisions have arisen the competing electoral coalitions—shirts versus skins, regulars versus red-hots—represented by Romney and Santorum, which are now increasingly likely to duke it out all spring.




Quote:
If either Romney or Santorum gains the nomination and then falls before Obama, flubbing an election that just months ago seemed eminently winnable, it will unleash a GOP apocalypse on November 7—followed by an epic struggle between the regulars and red-hots to refashion the party. And make no mistake: A loss is what the GOP’s political class now expects. “Six months before this thing got going, every Republican I know was saying, ‘We’re gonna win, we’re gonna beat Obama,’ ” says former Reagan strategist Ed Rollins. “Now even those who’ve endorsed Romney say, ‘My God, what a ******* mess.’ ”



Quote:
But while Gingrich today seems an afterthought, his role in shaping the contours of the contest cannot be overstated.

“Of all the candidates, he has had the biggest impact,” says Steve Schmidt, McCain’s 2008 chief strategist. “By making the case he made against Romney, Gingrich did a significant amount of damage to him, both in the primary and in the general, if Romney does become the nominee.”




Quote:
“The Romney campaign has realized there’s nothing it can do to communicate Romney’s record in a way that moves the needle, so their focus is on disqualifying Santorum as a plausible nominee and authentic conservative,” says a top GOP operative. “Can Santorum survive the onslaught? Gingrich certainly couldn’t.”



Santorum may be a different story, however—less erratic, less prone to light himself on fire, less saddled with XXXL baggage. “Santorum is a much more sympathetic character than Gingrich,” says the Evangelical leader Richard Land. “If a guy has 57 percent negatives, you can carpet-bomb him with impunity. But if Romney comes out swinging for Santorum, people are going to get angry. It’s a lot harder to demonize him than Gingrich.”





Quote:
Yet the likelihood of Romney delivering a KO, or even a TKO, on Super Tuesday is slight. According to University of Virginia political scientist Larry Sabato, at least five of the ten states with contests on March 6—Georgia, Ohio, Oklahoma, Tennessee, and Virginia—have electorates in which more than 40 percent of voters are Evangelical. That presents a significant hurdle to Romney and advantage to Santorum, provided he emerges from Michigan with either a win or a narrow enough loss that his momentum isn’t utterly halted. True, Santorum isn’t on the ballot in Virginia. But also true is that Alaska, Idaho, and North Dakota, for which there is no data available on the size of the born-again contingent, are all caucus states in which religious conservatives (and tea-partyers) are thick on the ground.





Quote:
Not one of the president’s presiding reelection gurus—David Axelrod, David Plouffe, Jim Messina—believes that, come November, their margin of victory will be as big as even the smallest of those numbers. All along, they have been operating from the assumption that the Republican base will be riled up and ready to turn out in droves on Election Day. That Richard Land is right when he asserts that, for all the lack of enthusiasm for the extant crop of candidates, no one should ever “underestimate the ability of President Obama to rally conservatives to vote against him.”



Quote:
“If Romney is the nominee and he loses in November, I think we’ll see a resurgence of the charismatic populist right,” says Robert Alan Goldberg, a history professor at the University of Utah and author of a biography of Barry Goldwater. “Not only will [the grassroots wing] say that Romney led Republicans down the road to defeat, but that the whole type of conservatism he represents is doomed.”





Quote:
But if it’s Santorum who is the standard-bearer and then he suffers an epic loss, a different analogy will be apt: Goldwater in 1964. (And, given the degree of the challenges Santorum would face in attracting female voters, epic it might well be.) As Kearns Goodwin points out, the rejection of the Arizona senator’s ideology and policies led the GOP to turn back in 1968 to Nixon, “a much more moderate figure, despite the incredible corruption of his time in office.” For Republicans after 2012, a similar repudiation of the populist, culture-warrior coalition that is fueling Santorum’s surge would open the door to the many talented party leaders—Daniels, Christie, Bush, Ryan, Bobby Jindal—waiting in the wings for 2016, each offering the possibility of refashioning the GOP into a serious and forward-thinking enterprise.



Only the most mindless of ideologues reject the truism that America would be best served by the presence of two credible governing parties instead of the situation that currently obtains. A Santorum nomination would be seen by many liberals as a scary and retrograde proposition. And no doubt it would make for a wild ride, with enough talk of Satan, abortifacients, and sweater vests to drive any sane man bonkers. But in the long run, it might do a world of good, compelling Republicans to return to their senses—and forge ahead into the 21st century. Which is why all people of common sense and goodwill might consider, in the days ahead, adopting a slogan that may strike them as odd, perverse, or even demented: Go, Rick, go.

0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 08:11 am
I'm from MA, have been registered for decades as an Independent (what we here technically called Unenrolled), have pretty reliably, tho not always, voted Democratic, but I am seriously thinking of voting in the Republican primary next Tuesday, for Santorum (we have open primaries). One, because after 4 years of Romney as governor I am convinced he is totally ego-obsessed and will do whatever he thinks will get him elected, and he will pander to whoever has the most access to him once in office, largely the people with the biggest bucks. And two, because Santorum, like Gingrich, tends to shoot from the lip. And the positions he holds dear are completely different from what 80% of the country thinks. Which means by November he will have alienated a much larger portion of the country than voted for Obama in 2008, which means Obama should win by historically large margins.

I remember in the 2008 primaries, conservative Texans voted in large numbers for Obama in an attempt to derail Hillary Clinton, who at the moment was the presumed front runner. It didn't work out quite the way they intended. My hope is that it won't work quite that way this time around, because, in a perverse sort of way, I look at a vote for Santorum as a vote to save the country from disaster.
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 09:58 am
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
My hope is that it won't work quite that way this time around, because, in a perverse sort of way, I look at a vote for Santorum as a vote to save the country from disaster.


I don't think it is going to matter, most republicans know that Santorum does not have a chance with his extreme views to win in the general election; I doubt the big money establishment people are willing to risk a Santorum win so they will continue to support Romney despite most republicans seemingly dislike of Romney.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 10:01 am
Btw, final Michigan delegate tally is a tie -- 15 for Romney, 15 for Santorum.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 11:32 am
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:

Btw, final Michigan delegate tally is a tie -- 15 for Romney, 15 for Santorum.


Boy, Romney can't catch a break, can he?

I wanted to note that Romney is explicitly asking for donations now - in his speeches and in the latest round of political ads. Perhaps the predictions that he would run into some money problems are coming true?

The really crazy thing is that he could easily self-finance much of his campaign. Except he can't do that.

Cycloptichorn
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 11:35 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Right.

Would look way too weak + "buying the election" + right, he's crazy-rich so he can toss in some money of his own, stupid crazy-rich guy.... etc.
DrewDad
 
  5  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 12:10 pm
@sozobe,
This made me laugh.

Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2012 12:16 pm
The revelation today of a 2002 tape in which Romney brags about all the money he's successfully secured from the Federal government for his state (and the Olympics) is going to be a problem for him. It reinforces the argument that today's Conservatives make against him and weakens his arguments against Santorum and Newt for similar things.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Mar, 2012 01:01 pm
@DrewDad,
Hilarious!
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Sat 3 Mar, 2012 11:47 am
Another Romney revelation today - this time, a 2009 USA Today article (suspisciously missing from their website) in which he urged Obama to consider an individual mandate and government-controlled reimbursement rates for doctors as a method of controlling health care costs.

!

Is someone oppo dumping in advance of Super Tuesday, or what???

The right-wing websites are absolutely freaking out over this.

Cycloptichorn
joefromchicago
 
  3  
Reply Sat 3 Mar, 2012 12:08 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Of course the Republicans have disavowed their prior endorsement of Romneycare just because Obama has now come out in favor of it, just as they have disavowed their prior support of cap-and-trade and a whole host of other programs that they originated. For Democrats, this is evidence that Republicans are a bunch of liars and hypocrites. For me, this is evidence that Democrats are a bunch of crypto-Republicans.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Mar, 2012 12:44 pm
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:
For me, this is evidence that Democrats are a bunch of crypto-Republicans.


Hehehehehehe . . . the truth hurts . . .
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Mar, 2012 02:06 pm
For what it is worth - not much - the Repubs will be holding a caucus in Washington state today with the results of a straw poll being announced later tonight. None of the 40-something delegates to the convention will actually be allocated. Still the headline will be somewhat important ahead of Super Tuesday in just 3 days.
Turnout at the caucus is estimated to be around 60,000 which is a very small percentage of Republican registered voters. A poll out a couple of days ago has Romney @ 37% vs Santorum @ 32% with Paul (16%) and Gingrich (13%) trailing. A poll in early February had Santorum at 38% vs Romney at 27%.
The polls, because they are of Likely Voters are not meaningful. The straw poll will come down to which candidate can get more supporters to the caucus.
Romney is more popular west of the Cascade Mountains while Santorum does better in the more rural eastern part of the state. Paul has a well organized team on the ground and could do well.

Romney: 31%; Santorum: 29%; Paul: 23%; Gingrich: 12%.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  3  
Reply Sat 3 Mar, 2012 04:42 pm
I'm talking to "Romney Team Ohio" about events in Columbus before Super Tuesday. They seem to think there will be events, but they can't tell me for sure whether there will in fact be any Columbus events, and if so, where or when. They also don't seem to want to provide an interpreter. We'll see on that one. (I like having an interpreter so I know wtf is going on, which is nice, but also because it puts me right up front.)

Can I just say that this is all different from Obama in 2007-2008? 'Cause it is. My own little microsample re: efficiency (and accessibility) of the two campaigns.
0 Replies
 
 

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