40
   

Why I am not Voting Obama

 
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 29 Feb, 2012 07:54 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I have no idea...I've never voted for a war criminal--nor considered voting for one.


Either you haven't voted since roughly 1945, or you were lucky enough to vote for the loser. Being the loser meant the guy never had to become a war criminal.

If you've voted for a winner then you have voted for a war criminal/terrorist.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Wed 29 Feb, 2012 08:03 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
Either you haven't voted since roughly 1945, or you were lucky enough to vote for the loser. Being the loser meant the guy never had to become a war criminal.

If you've voted for a winner then you have voted for a war criminal/terrorist.



Respectfully, JTT, I already explained what you see as a contradiction when I wrote:


If you are actually asking, however, "How does one bring oneself to vote for someone YOU (JTT) consider a war criminal?"...

...my reply would be:

I would simply disregard what you think about the individual and vote for the person I consider to be the best choice offered.


Same thing goes for those actually elected.
JTT
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 29 Feb, 2012 08:36 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I would simply disregard what you think about the individual and vote for the person I consider to be the best choice offered.

Same thing goes for those actually elected.


You are awfully good at ignoring the facts, Frank. Is it something that they put in the water?

This is what allows you to go on in this la la existence pretending that you are voting for decent human beings. Decent human beings do not commit war crimes, nor do they commit frequent terrorist actions.

The historical facts point clearly to every US president since WWII as a war criminal. The historical facts point clearly to every US president since WWII engaging in terrorist actions.
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Wed 29 Feb, 2012 09:11 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
Liberals from every state ought to emulate my decision.

I agree, though only in those states where you can send a signal without bringing Republicans in power. New Jersey is such a state. (Obama won by a margin of 16 percent or so.) That's why I have no problem voting Green here, if I should have a vote then.

EDIT: I just noticed you responded to (and disagreed with) Frank, who basically said what I said. I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 05:07 am
@JTT,
Quote:
You are awfully good at ignoring the facts, Frank. Is it something that they put in the water?


You are assuming that what you suppose to be "the facts"...actually are the facts. I am ignoring what you presume to be the facts...and I think I can safely do that without ignoring the facts.

Quote:
This is what allows you to go on in this la la existence pretending that you are voting for decent human beings. Decent human beings do not commit war crimes, nor do they commit frequent terrorist actions.


Obviously we are of different minds on this, JTT. I appreciate your sharing how you feel with me.

Quote:
The historical facts point clearly to every US president since WWII as a war criminal. The historical facts point clearly to every US president since WWII engaging in terrorist actions.


Once again, you are assuming that what you presume to be the facts...are actually the facts. I think you are wrong, but I cannot think of any way to reconcile our differences on this issue.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 11:51 am
@Frank Apisa,
Nice try Frank, but you will never conveince JTT that all U.S. citizens arnt war criminals.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 12:11 pm
@RABEL222,
Quote:
Nice try Frank, but you will never conveince JTT that all U.S. citizens arnt war criminals.


I suspect you may be right, Rabel...but I'm gonna keep making the same argument in response. I am not going to concern myself with convincing him of it...but I am determined to tell the story as I see it.

We have done some mighty bad things over the years.

But the "we" in that sentence refers to "human beings." Human beings (in relative terms) just recently came down out of the trees; we are still a relatively primitive species...and we do lots of very barbaric things.

I have no problem with JTT thinking America is an especially barbaric country...or that American presidents are an especially barbaric breed. That is his right.

I just do not agree.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 01:11 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You wrote,
Quote:
I have no problem with JTT thinking America is an especially barbaric country...or that American presidents are an especially barbaric breed. That is his right.


That's not a problem with anyone thinking like JTT; but it becomes a bore and hysterical when he repeats ad nauseam the same message. He just doesn't understand humans as a whole or the history of homo sapiens.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 04:23 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Surely you and Frank are not advocating the idea that humans are related to animals? After all the bible said that god created man directly so we cant be related to animals.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 04:38 pm
@RABEL222,

Quote:
Surely you and Frank are not advocating the idea that humans are related to animals?




I am...and stop calling ci Shirley.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 4 Mar, 2012 11:32 pm
Barack Obama Worked For The CIA - John Pilger

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Lrq9OAOsZ0&feature=related
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Mar, 2012 11:35 pm
Quote:


Jerry Garcia, of the Grateful Dead once said, "Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil." Yet all the time I hear that people are voting for one candidate or another because they are the lesser of the two evils.

http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=12402
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2012 12:04 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
You are assuming that what you suppose to be "the facts"...actually are the facts. I am ignoring what you presume to be the facts...and I think I can safely do that without ignoring the facts.


I'm not the one who is ignoring anything, Frank. It's you who is so damn determined to ignore anything that might bring you anywhere close to facing the facts.

So you dance around the issue, raising these inanities, like the one you raised with Spendi, hoping that you do not have to discuss any of the facts.

Quote:
If the Nuremberg Laws were Applied...
Noam Chomsky
Delivered around 1990
If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-war American president would have been hanged. By violation of the Nuremberg laws I mean the same kind of crimes for which people were hanged in Nuremberg. And Nuremberg means Nuremberg and Tokyo. So first of all you've got to think back as to what people were hanged for at Nuremberg and Tokyo. And once you think back, the question doesn't even require a moment's waste of time.

For example, one general at the Tokyo trials, which were the worst, General Yamashita, was hanged on the grounds that troops in the Philippines, which were technically under his command (though it was so late in the war that he had no contact with them -- it was the very end of the war and there were some troops running around the Philippines who he had no contact with), had carried out atrocities, so he was hanged. Well, try that one out and you've already wiped out everybody.

Read on, Frank, at,

http://www.chomsky.info/talks/1990----.htm


Quote:
I think you are wrong, but I cannot think of any way to reconcile our differences on this issue.


Try addressing the issues, Frank, instead of two stepping all around them.



Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2012 06:04 am
@JTT,
Quote:
Jerry Garcia, of the Grateful Dead once said, "Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil." Yet all the time I hear that people are voting for one candidate or another because they are the lesser of the two evils.


Read the definition of "argument of authority"...not that Jerry Garcia was much of an authority.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2012 06:16 am
@JTT,
Quote:
I'm not the one who is ignoring anything, Frank. It's you who is so damn determined to ignore anything that might bring you anywhere close to facing the facts.

So you dance around the issue, raising these inanities, like the one you raised with Spendi, hoping that you do not have to discuss any of the facts.


I do not "dance around issues", JTT. And you asserting that I do will not change that.

I also do not raise "inanities" (especially with Spendius)...and you asserting that I do will not change that.


Quote:
Try addressing the issues, Frank, instead of two stepping all around them.


Just as I am not "dancing" around them, JTT, I am not "stepping" around them either. So let me “address” the issue of the Noam Chomsky essay.

THE ISSUE: The essay starts, “IF the Nuremberg laws were applied…”

Here is my response, the ADDRESS (if you will): IF the Queen of England had balls, she would be the KING of England. But she does not.

Just as the Nuremberg Laws are not being applied.

Well, that was easy. What next?

JTT
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2012 07:20 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Read the definition of "argument of authority"...not that Jerry Garcia was much of an authority.


Compared to Frank "Oralloy" Apisa, he sure is. He doesn't have to be an authority. He's simply accurate.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2012 07:24 am
@JTT,
Quote:
Compared to Frank "Oralloy" Apisa, he sure is. He doesn't have to be an authority. He's simply accurate.


Thank you for sharing that, JTT...although you really should use the correct tense in your verbs.

Jerry died on my birthday...and he is still dead.
JTT
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2012 07:32 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I do not "dance around issues", JTT.


Okay, Oralloy.

Quote:
I also do not raise "inanities" (especially with Spendius)...


Sure, sure, Oralloy. It's always enlightening to read the sources you offer.

Quote:
THE ISSUE: The essay starts, “IF the Nuremberg laws were applied…”


That's not the issue, Frank. The issue is whether US presidents have committed war crimes. "If" means "under those conditions". We know that the most powerful criminals are never held to account and it's made worse by apologists like you and your brothers in deceit.

It's so clear that all these prezes have committed crimes for which Americans, hypocrites that they are tried and hung others.

You're up, Twinkle Toes.
JTT
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2012 07:35 am
@Frank Apisa,
Now that's a dance and a half, Frank.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2012 07:50 am
@JTT,
Quote:
You're up, Twinkle Toes.


Nope.

If you are going to do the "Oralloy" or "Twinkle Toes" thing, you're gonna have to find someone else to play with.
 

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