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Why I am not Voting Obama

 
 
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:26 pm
@Rockhead,

Nice projection... it speaks volumes about you and your ilk.

Obama is this countries #1 bigot and you worship him.
Rockhead
 
  3  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:28 pm
@H2O MAN,
I don't think you qualify to be deciding ilks...

he who worships Rush Limbaugh.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  6  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:39 pm
Ill vote Obama because the alturnative would be 4 years of republican **** ups.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  4  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:42 pm
Andrew Sullivan has one of the better rebuttals to the opinion piece that Edgar introduced. It is a long one.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/01/15/andrew-sullivan-how-obama-s-long-game-will-outsmart-his-critics.html?fb_ref=article&fb_source=profile_oneline

Quote:
Andrew Sullivan: How Obama's Long Game Will Outsmart His Critics
Jan 16, 2012 12:00 AM EST

The right calls him a socialist, the left says he sucks up to Wall Street, and independents think he's a wimp. Andrew Sullivan on how the president may just end up outsmarting them all.

You hear it everywhere. Democrats are disappointed in the president. Independents have soured even more. Republicans have worked themselves up into an apocalyptic fervor. And, yes, this is not exactly unusual.

A president in the last year of his first term will always get attacked mercilessly by his partisan opponents, and also, often, by the feistier members of his base. And when unemployment is at remarkably high levels, and with the national debt setting records, the criticism will—and should be—even fiercer. But this time, with this president, something different has happened. It’s not that I don’t understand the critiques of Barack Obama from the enraged right and the demoralized left. It’s that I don’t even recognize their description of Obama’s first term in any way. The attacks from both the right and the left on the man and his policies aren’t out of bounds. They’re simply—empirically—wrong.

A caveat: I write this as an unabashed supporter of Obama from early 2007 on. I did so not as a liberal, but as a conservative-minded independent appalled by the Bush administration’s record of war, debt, spending, and torture. I did not expect, or want, a messiah. I have one already, thank you very much. And there have been many times when I have disagreed with decisions Obama has made—to drop the Bowles-Simpson debt commission, to ignore the war crimes of the recent past, and to launch a war in Libya without Congress’s sanction, to cite three. But given the enormity of what he inherited, and given what he explicitly promised, it remains simply a fact that Obama has delivered in a way that the unhinged right and purist left have yet to understand or absorb. Their short-term outbursts have missed Obama’s long game—and why his reelection remains, in my view, as essential for this country’s future as his original election in 2008.

The right’s core case is that Obama has governed as a radical leftist attempting a “fundamental transformation” of the American way of life. Mitt Romney accuses the president of making the recession worse, of wanting to turn America into a European welfare state, of not believing in opportunity or free enterprise, of having no understanding of the real economy, and of apologizing for America and appeasing our enemies. According to Romney, Obama is a mortal threat to “the soul” of America and an empty suit who couldn’t run a business, let alone a country.

Leave aside the internal incoherence—how could such an incompetent be a threat to anyone? None of this is even faintly connected to reality—and the record proves it. On the economy, the facts are these. When Obama took office, the United States was losing around 750,000 jobs a month. The last quarter of 2008 saw an annualized drop in growth approaching 9 percent. This was the most serious downturn since the 1930s, there was a real chance of a systemic collapse of the entire global financial system, and unemployment and debt—lagging indicators—were about to soar even further. No fair person can blame Obama for the wreckage of the next 12 months, as the financial crisis cut a swath through employment. Economies take time to shift course.

But Obama did several things at once: he continued the bank bailout begun by George W. Bush, he initiated a bailout of the auto industry, and he worked to pass a huge stimulus package of $787 billion.

All these decisions deserve scrutiny. And in retrospect, they were far more successful than anyone has yet fully given Obama the credit for. The job collapse bottomed out at the beginning of 2010, as the stimulus took effect. Since then, the U.S. has added 2.4 million jobs. That’s not enough, but it’s far better than what Romney would have you believe, and more than the net jobs created under the entire Bush administration. In 2011 alone, 1.9 million private-sector jobs were created, while a net 280,000 government jobs were lost. Overall government employment has declined 2.6 percent over the past 3 years. (That compares with a drop of 2.2 percent during the early years of the Reagan administration.) To listen to current Republican rhetoric about Obama’s big-government socialist ways, you would imagine that the reverse was true. It isn’t.

The right claims the stimulus failed because it didn’t bring unemployment down to 8 percent in its first year, as predicted by Obama’s transition economic team. Instead, it peaked at 10.2 percent. But the 8 percent prediction was made before Obama took office and was wrong solely because it relied on statistics that guessed the economy was only shrinking by around 4 percent, not 9. Remove that statistical miscalculation (made by government and private-sector economists alike) and the stimulus did exactly what it was supposed to do. It put a bottom under the free fall. It is not an exaggeration to say it prevented a spiral downward that could have led to the Second Great Depression.

You’d think, listening to the Republican debates, that Obama has raised taxes. Again, this is not true. Not only did he agree not to sunset the Bush tax cuts for his entire first term, he has aggressively lowered taxes on most Americans. A third of the stimulus was tax cuts, affecting 95 percent of taxpayers; he has cut the payroll tax, and recently had to fight to keep it cut against Republican opposition. His spending record is also far better than his predecessor’s. Under Bush, new policies on taxes and spending cost the taxpayer a total of $5.07 trillion. Under Obama’s budgets both past and projected, he will have added $1.4 trillion in two terms. Under Bush and the GOP, nondefense discretionary spending grew by twice as much as under Obama. Again: imagine Bush had been a Democrat and Obama a Republican. You could easily make the case that Obama has been far more fiscally conservative than his predecessor—except, of course, that Obama has had to govern under the worst recession since the 1930s, and Bush, after the 2001 downturn, governed in a period of moderate growth. It takes work to increase the debt in times of growth, as Bush did. It takes much more work to constrain the debt in the deep recession Bush bequeathed Obama.

The great conservative bugaboo, Obamacare, is also far more moderate than its critics have claimed. The Congressional Budget Office has projected it will reduce the deficit, not increase it dramatically, as Bush’s unfunded Medicare Prescription Drug benefit did. It is based on the individual mandate, an idea pioneered by the archconservative Heritage Foundation, Newt Gingrich, and, of course, Mitt Romney, in the past. It does not have a public option; it gives a huge new client base to the drug and insurance companies; its health-insurance exchanges were also pioneered by the right. It’s to the right of the Clintons’ monstrosity in 1993, and remarkably similar to Nixon’s 1974 proposal. Its passage did not preempt recovery efforts; it followed them. It needs improvement in many ways, but the administration is open to further reform and has agreed to allow states to experiment in different ways to achieve the same result. It is not, as Romney insists, a one-model, top-down prescription. Like Obama’s Race to the Top education initiative, it sets standards, grants incentives, and then allows individual states to experiment. Embedded in it are also a slew of cost-reduction pilot schemes to slow health-care spending. Yes, it crosses the Rubicon of universal access to private health care. But since federal law mandates that hospitals accept all emergency-room cases requiring treatment anyway, we already obey that socialist principle—but in the most inefficient way possible. Making 44 million current free-riders pay into the system is not fiscally reckless; it is fiscally prudent. It is, dare I say it, conservative.

On foreign policy, the right-wing critiques have been the most unhinged. Romney accuses the president of apologizing for America, and others all but accuse him of treason and appeasement. Instead, Obama reversed Bush’s policy of ignoring Osama bin Laden, immediately setting a course that eventually led to his capture and death. And when the moment for decision came, the president overruled both his secretary of state and vice president in ordering the riskiest—but most ambitious—plan on the table. He even personally ordered the extra helicopters that saved the mission. It was a triumph, not only in killing America’s primary global enemy, but in getting a massive trove of intelligence to undermine al Qaeda even further. If George Bush had taken out bin Laden, wiped out al Qaeda’s leadership, and gathered a treasure trove of real intelligence by a daring raid, he’d be on Mount Rushmore by now. But where Bush talked tough and acted counterproductively, Obama has simply, quietly, relentlessly decimated our real enemies, while winning the broader propaganda war. Since he took office, al Qaeda’s popularity in the Muslim world has plummeted.

Obama’s foreign policy, like Dwight Eisenhower’s or George H.W. Bush’s, eschews short-term political hits for long-term strategic advantage. It is forged by someone interested in advancing American interests—not asserting an ideology and enforcing it regardless of the consequences by force of arms. By hanging back a little, by “leading from behind” in Libya and elsewhere, Obama has made other countries actively seek America’s help and reappreciate our role. As an antidote to the bad feelings of the Iraq War, it has worked close to perfectly.

But the right isn’t alone in getting Obama wrong. While the left is less unhinged in its critique, it is just as likely to miss the screen for the pixels. From the start, liberals projected onto Obama absurd notions of what a president can actually do in a polarized country, where anything requires 60 Senate votes even to stand a chance of making it into law. They have described him as a hapless tool of Wall Street, a continuation of Bush in civil liberties, a cloistered elitist unable to grasp the populist moment that is his historic opportunity. They rail against his attempts to reach a Grand Bargain on entitlement reform. They decry his too-small stimulus, his too-weak financial reform, and his too-cautious approach to gay civil rights. They despair that he reacts to rabid Republican assaults with lofty appeals to unity and compromise.

They miss, it seems to me, two vital things. The first is the simple scale of what has been accomplished on issues liberals say they care about. A depression was averted. The bail-out of the auto industry was—amazingly—successful. Even the bank bailouts have been repaid to a great extent by a recovering banking sector. The Iraq War—the issue that made Obama the nominee—has been ended on time and, vitally, with no troops left behind. Defense is being cut steadily, even as Obama has moved his own party away from a Pelosi-style reflexive defense of all federal entitlements. Under Obama, support for marriage equality and marijuana legalization has crested to record levels. Under Obama, a crucial state, New York, made marriage equality for gays an irreversible fact of American life. Gays now openly serve in the military, and the Defense of Marriage Act is dying in the courts, undefended by the Obama Justice Department. Vast government money has been poured into noncarbon energy investments, via the stimulus. Fuel-emission standards have been drastically increased. Torture was ended. Two moderately liberal women replaced men on the Supreme Court. Oh, yes, and the liberal holy grail that eluded Johnson and Carter and Clinton, nearly universal health care, has been set into law. Politifact recently noted that of 508 specific promises, a third had been fulfilled and only two have not had some action taken on them. To have done all this while simultaneously battling an economic hurricane makes Obama about as honest a follow-through artist as anyone can expect from a politician.

What liberals have never understood about Obama is that he practices a show-don’t-tell, long-game form of domestic politics. What matters to him is what he can get done, not what he can immediately take credit for. And so I railed against him for the better part of two years for dragging his feet on gay issues. But what he was doing was getting his Republican defense secretary and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs to move before he did. The man who made the case for repeal of “don’t ask, don’t tell” was, in the end, Adm. Mike Mullen. This took time—as did his painstaking change in the rule barring HIV-positive immigrants and tourists—but the slow and deliberate and unprovocative manner in which it was accomplished made the changes more durable. Not for the first time, I realized that to understand Obama, you have to take the long view. Because he does.

Or take the issue of the banks. Liberals have derided him as a captive of Wall Street, of being railroaded by Larry Summers and Tim Geithner into a too-passive response to the recklessness of the major U.S. banks. But it’s worth recalling that at the start of 2009, any responsible president’s priority would have been stabilization of the financial system, not the exacting of revenge. Obama was not elected, despite liberal fantasies, to be a left-wing crusader. He was elected as a pragmatic, unifying reformist who would be more responsible than Bush.

And what have we seen? A recurring pattern. To use the terms Obama first employed in his inaugural address: the president begins by extending a hand to his opponents; when they respond by raising a fist, he demonstrates that they are the source of the problem; then, finally, he moves to his preferred position of moderate liberalism and fights for it without being effectively tarred as an ideologue or a divider. This kind of strategy takes time. And it means there are long stretches when Obama seems incapable of defending himself, or willing to let others to define him, or simply weak. I remember those stretches during the campaign against Hillary Clinton. I also remember whose strategy won out in the end.

This is where the left is truly deluded. By misunderstanding Obama’s strategy and temperament and persistence, by grandstanding on one issue after another, by projecting unrealistic fantasies onto a candidate who never pledged a liberal revolution, they have failed to notice that from the very beginning, Obama was playing a long game. He did this with his own party over health-care reform. He has done it with the Republicans over the debt. He has done it with the Israeli government over stopping the settlements on the West Bank—and with the Iranian regime, by not playing into their hands during the Green Revolution, even as they gunned innocents down in the streets. Nothing in his first term—including the complicated multiyear rollout of universal health care—can be understood if you do not realize that Obama was always planning for eight years, not four. And if he is reelected, he will have won a battle more important than 2008: for it will be a mandate for an eight-year shift away from the excesses of inequality, overreach abroad, and reckless deficit spending of the last three decades. It will recapitalize him to entrench what he has done already and make it irreversible.

Yes, Obama has waged a war based on a reading of executive power that many civil libertarians, including myself, oppose. And he has signed into law the indefinite detention of U.S. citizens without trial (even as he pledged never to invoke this tyrannical power himself). But he has done the most important thing of all: excising the cancer of torture from military detention and military justice. If he is not reelected, that cancer may well return. Indeed, many on the right appear eager for it to return.

Sure, Obama cannot regain the extraordinary promise of 2008. We’ve already elected the nation’s first black president and replaced a tongue-tied dauphin with a man of peerless eloquence. And he has certainly failed to end Washington’s brutal ideological polarization, as he pledged to do. But most Americans in polls rightly see him as less culpable for this impasse than the GOP. Obama has steadfastly refrained from waging the culture war, while the right has accused him of a “war against religion.” He has offered to cut entitlements (and has already cut Medicare), while the Republicans have refused to raise a single dollar of net revenue from anyone. Even the most austerity-driven government in Europe, the British Tories, are to the left of that. And it is this Republican intransigence—from the 2009 declaration by Rush Limbaugh that he wants Obama “to fail” to the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell’s admission that his primary objective is denying Obama a second term—that has been truly responsible for the deadlock. And the only way out of that deadlock is an electoral rout of the GOP, since the language of victory and defeat seems to be the only thing it understands.

If I sound biased, that’s because I am. Biased toward the actual record, not the spin; biased toward a president who has conducted himself with grace and calm under incredible pressure, who has had to manage crises not seen since the Second World War and the Depression, and who as yet has not had a single significant scandal to his name. “To see what is in front of one’s nose needs a constant struggle,” George Orwell once wrote. What I see in front of my nose is a president whose character, record, and promise remain as grotesquely underappreciated now as they were absurdly hyped in 2008. And I feel confident that sooner rather than later, the American people will come to see his first term from the same calm, sane perspective. And decide to finish what they started.
0 Replies
 
eurocelticyankee
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:44 pm
@H2O MAN,
I don't know what you're reading but I haven't heard anybody worship Obama on this tread, it's seems to be more a case of he's the best of a bad lot.

One way or the other use your vote.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:44 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
As I said, the guy errs in a few places. However, acheiving his list of objectives is not for me the objective, but the objective is to get us pointed in that general direction. If he is an asshole for wanting these things, then I am one also.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:46 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

As I said, the guy errs in a few places. However, acheiving his list of objectives is not for me the objective, but the objective is to get us pointed in that general direction. If he is an asshole for wanting these things, then I am one also.


We are pointed in that general direction. That's the part that I can't understand - how people can fail to see that.

I'm still waiting for you to answer my original question in this thread:

Quote:
I'll ask the same question that I did in another thread: who are you comparing Obama to, and finding him wanting? What real-world candidate or person?


Cycloptichorn
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:46 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
However, more and more people like myself are making the same decision.


Gotta agree with you there, Edgar. Definitely a lot of people (liberals) who are thinking the way you are.

Quote:
If we frighten the establishment to get back to doing the people's work, I will consider us a success.


Okay, but if a Republican is elected, you and those others will have helped get him elected...and that Republican will fill judicial vacancies with people who are like Scalia, Thomas, and Alito.

You gotta do what you gotta do...but the words "baby", "bathwater"...and 'THROW OUT"...all come immediately to mind.


Yeah, but next time the Democrats may quit lying to get the liberal vote.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:48 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:

I agree with Cyclo and Frank and all those who have suggested that voting for a third party candidate or simply not going to the polls is tantamount to throwing in the towel and, worse, throwing your vote away. I will vote for Obama. Why? Because I'm not yet ready to take up arms and participate in an overthrow of the established government. That would be my only other option if I felt as you do, edgar. I could never just sit back and say, "**** it. Neither party has a candidate so I'll just take it easy and show my displeasure by voting in an asshole sort of way." Hell, no, if you really feel that way, get a gun, start making Molotov cocktails in your bbasement or garage, get ready to take over the Capitol and the White House and the Supreme Court buildings. Go! Do something meangful!

I will vote for Obama. My conscience leaves me no other choice.


That is where we disagree, Mr Merry. We have to scare the crap out of the Democrats before they will stop sliding to ultra conservatism.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:50 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

ehBeth wrote:

edgarblythe wrote:
Turning rightward tightens the bolt. But you don’t want to break the handle by pushing too hard, so you relax and turn the handle back to the left. The wrench loosens a bit, if ineffectually — the bolt doesn’t move, but the pressure eases up. And then comes the next push to the right, tightening the bolt still further. Each cycle has its new status quo, its period of tightening up and release, and the result in the end? The leftward relaxation has merely made the rightward clampdown possible.


It has been interesting, and disheartening to witness this from across the border. That many Democrat supporters don't seem to see how far to the right the party has shifted over the years used to puzzle me. There seem to be no viable liberal options left on the U.S. political landscape.

Interesting. Disheartening.


And yet, we have still continued to see great strides taken in the areas of liberty and equality for all, over the last few decades.

Cycloptichorn


I have shared ebeth's conclusions myself. I felt this way, beginning in the 1970s.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:52 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

ehBeth wrote:

I definitely haven't seen what you suggest you are seeing.


I know quite a few people who have gotten same-sex marriages in various states over the last decade who would agree with me. I know trans-gendered people who can openly talk about and pursue their rights in ways they couldn't before who would agree; I know many minorities who would have sworn up and down that no non-white would ever be elected president. I know people with pre-existing health conditions who could never get insurance who will now be able to do so.

Change is incremental; you have to watch to see it. But it's there. Research has conclusively shown that the attitudes of the youth of the last 30 years have consistently become more and more liberal over time.

Cycloptichorn

Same sex marriage. Score one success. Most of the rest is failure.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:56 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

edgarblythe wrote:

As I said, the guy errs in a few places. However, acheiving his list of objectives is not for me the objective, but the objective is to get us pointed in that general direction. If he is an asshole for wanting these things, then I am one also.


We are pointed in that general direction. That's the part that I can't understand - how people can fail to see that.

I'm still waiting for you to answer my original question in this thread:

Quote:
I'll ask the same question that I did in another thread: who are you comparing Obama to, and finding him wanting? What real-world candidate or person?


Cycloptichorn


I am not comparing Obama to a person, but a concept.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  4  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 03:21 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

I live in a state that automatically votes Republican. So, my vote is practically non existent. However, more and more people like myself are making the same decision. If we frighten the establishment to get back to doing the people's work, I will consider us a success.


Rockhead wrote:

It is very disheartening to live among a vast republican majority.

Kansas will go to whichever clown they decide on, no matter what my ballot says...


I think this is an important point and one that speaks to many disenfranchised voters. It allows for a vote of conscience or for sitting out an election in protest (or apathy) because one feels that their vote doesn't matter. I made a similar statement on the "Who are you voting for in November" thread last night. Not that I'm hoping Obama doesn't win, but that I don't think he needs my vote to do so and I'd rather vote my conscience than vote for any party regular. If things turn south for Obama as November approaches and I think my vote would actually help him carry IL then I'll vote Dem as I did when I held my nose and voted Dem in 2004 and 2008.

I think we need to reelect Obama or face a devastating situation with any of the Republican alternatives. I read recently that as many as 60% of registered voters are considering voting for a third party candidate this time. That says a lot about how folks feel about both parties and the current state of affairs. The system is broken. It's been broken for a long time but it's obvious now to many, many people who thought that their party could/would make a difference. They're both disgustingly the same -- concerned more with party and power than the people who elect them.

I appreciate much of the Andrew Sullivan piece and agree with much of what he says. It comes down to Obama (Dems) being the lesser of two evils. I chose to vote for neither.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 03:27 pm
In my case, geography has nothing to do with it. If I lived in Florida or Arizona, my decision would be the same.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 03:29 pm
@edgarblythe,
You guys aren't paying much attention to what's actually happened, then. I can't say it any plainer than that.

Let me ask you a serious question. The guy who's piece you posted included this list of qualities a candidate needed to have:

Quote:


•must neither openly nor tacitly support the use of torture in any circumstance.
•must pledge to defend women’s access to abortion against any threatened limitation, whether that obstruction be political, religious or economic.
•must pledge to oppose the enshrining in law of social discrimination against any group of people based on gender, ethnicity, sexuality, language, religious belief or lack thereof, disability, social class, or other arbitrary division.
•must agree that the rich – who have after all profited most from the country’s natural wealth, infrastructure and financial policy – ought to pay their fair share of taxes.
•must at least hold as an aspiration the provision of a tolerable standard of living to all people in the US, including shelter, food, clothing, education, health care and access to communication, regardless of the individual’s ability to pay.
•must support the continued existence of labor unions.
•must pledge not to punish individual migrants for the failures of the country’s immigration policy.
•must at least pledge to value the ecological integrity of the United States’ landscapes over the possibility that profit might be extracted from them.
•must possess at least a high-school level understanding of science, especially regarding but not limited to crucial topics such as climate change and evolutionary biology.
•must oppose any interference in the routine and proper teaching of science in our public schools by religious groups.
•must abide by the War Powers Resolution of 1973.


Knowing what you know about Obama - which one of those points, with the exception of the last one, does he fail so badly on?

Cycloptichorn
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 03:44 pm
I am not going down the list and ticking off this that and the other, partly because it is easy to confuse rhetoric with action and also because it is not always black and white. To be for something, but take minimal to no action, or to concede bits of it away with little to no reciprical action is as good as to be against the things one purports to be supporting.
Below viewing threshold (view)
failures art
 
  4  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 04:19 pm
Vote how you see fit. Here's my request though. If you're going to vote third party, vote for someone you want. Don't simply vote to "send a message." The process is built on people voting proactively for the candidate that best, not perfectly, fits their needs. If Obama doesn't best fit your needs and another candidate does, go for it.

What third party candidates are you considering?

A
R
T
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 04:23 pm
@failures art,
No viable third party has fielded a candidate, as yet. Remember, I held that as an option, but not a certainty.
failures art
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 04:29 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

No viable third party has fielded a candidate, as yet. Remember, I held that as an option, but not a certainty.

Sure, I was just curious as to if your opinion was based on a third party candidate appearing that outdid Obama for your personal criteria.

A
R
T
 

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