Cut your hair, ya damn hippie!

And lets not forget the irrational and subjective...I find offensive the tone earlier in the thread that insinuated that if Mr B can not come up with a organized rational reason why he does not want this to happen then he should get out of the way. We humans are both rational and irrational, and this truth must always be respected.

I think that's a very valid question, boomer. Has Mo expressed already why exactly he wants pierced ears?

I don't recall anyone saying anything remotely like that, except for me and msolga questioning the "because I said so" rationale.

Nobody, not even me or msolga, have suggested that Mr. B be ignored on this.

Like I said earlier, he can't really articulated it. I speculated that it had something to do with peer group affiliation.

It could be something as simple as that he likes the way it looks. That's why people choose the clothing and accessories and haircuts that they do. Maybe he just thinks it's attractive.

I'm trying to stay out of the conversation about it so I'm not going to bring it up.

The first one certainly bolsters Mo's suggestion that he get one now since complications are more likely to happen after age 11.

Thanks!

The third one says there are "no reliable estimates" of complications from body piercing. Likewise, the second one doesn't give any statistics on it's occurrence. I'm not sure either one helps either side.

There has been a flavor of 'what is he thinking?' and how to draw this inchoate view out of Mr. B since he can't just articulate it.
You've been thinking all along here that you are the one on solid ground - or so it seems.

I do think you give his view credence, which is why you started this, but your bias can show - calling some of us shallow, for example, in whatever post that was.
More important to me is the matter of parental foot downs and how that works and works over what particular questions, including delay re age. I'm no expert and have always been on the side of discussion as a child grows - I follow the thread because of these kind of issues.

Here is the quote from her



Plus insistence from others that he needs to be able to articulate his reasoning for the "no", plus your insistence that Mo articulate his reason for wanting one. I generally agree that trying to rationally explain is helpful, but not doing it should not be a deal breaker, due to the irrationality of humans.

I don't think I called anyone shallow but did defend Mr. B against accusations of being the kind of shallow person who judged others based on their looks.

I do think I'm on solid ground so I suppose I am biased.

The discussion on here is not at all like the discussion at home. I told Mr. B I'd back him up, I told Mo I would not intercede on his behalf, and I told both of them to leave me out of it.

since pierced ears are not detrimental to his health, life or social standing then if Mr says no and is adamant about it, that should be it.
Find a compromising age where he can have it done, tell him that.. and end it.
A united front does not question each other or bit pick over their No answers in front of the kids. Behind them? sure. But Mo now knows that there is no unity on this and that.. if he pushed enough he can have what he wants. He was even given instruction on how to peck away at the unity .
ahhh.. no. at 11 i think knowing how to do that with something this simple is not the best of ideas.
Granted... I say that knowing I have done similar so I shut up.



but yeah. I too do NOT understand the adamant ..absolutely no way no how on ear piercing. Bean has hers done. Shes 7. She wanted it.
Its no big deal.
But.. if her dad had said absolutely not, i would have turned to her and said the same thing. Then we would have figured out a reasonable age and time when she COULD have it done... told her so... and that would be the end of it. She does not make decisions like that. We do. She is the child. Period.

oops. i see this now. AFTER i posted.

I had the impression that you were NOT behind him and let Mo know as well.
eek.

I don't think she's suggesting that I ignore Mr. B's opinion.

I think she understands my frustration with having to back up a decision that has no real rational basis.

I guess we'd have to hear from her to be sure.

I think some number of us might not be ready to see an eight year old boy in the u.s. with a diamond in his ear and we would not be, as such, definitively shallow. I admit I come from going through a much more tighty time than now, but tighty is still all around us.

Glad re the discussion at home.

Thanks for the update. I was scratching my head for a minute there...

I'm discussing it here because I'm not discussing it at home. I was just trying to understand why anyone might be so opposed to the idea that they just stopped at "No."

I don't know how anyone got the impression that me and Mr. B were fighting over this. We're not. The only thing about it we've discussed in days is when I asked him if he'd think differently if Mo was a girl.

Maybe the fact that I haven't found the reasons given on here compelling, and have said so, led some to believe that there was ongoing arguing between us.

Does it actually matter what the reason is that Mr. B is saying no? Really, it's irrelevant. He could come up with a dozen reasons and you might disagree with all of them. The fact is, he's saying No and you disagree and you have nothing to argue against because he hasn't given you his reasons. I think that bugs you more than the No. And that's understandable. Maybe just drop the issue from your mind and let it go. Mo is going to get told No many times in his life, sometimes without a reason. This is a good experience for him in that respect.

And he's only 11. We want all kinds of things throughout our childhoods that we may not want later.

I disagree that people shouldn't have reasons for saying either yes or no.

He does not get everything he wants but there are reasons that he doesn't, just as there are reasons that he does have to do some things he doesn't want to do, and just as there are reasons when we say yes.

A few thoughts:

Sozlet didn't have any major complications with her earrings and probably they'd close up if she stopped wearing earrings entirely. But it wasn't a trivial process, either. There were a lot of minor complications, such as infections that required regimens of careful cleaning.

Even now, two years after her ears were first pierced, the process isn't completely done. She still has to pay attention to her ears in terms of putting earrings in at intervals, which often involves blood and hassle if she's waited too long. (She doesn't wear earrings all of the time, mostly because of sports.) And she still has the occasional infection, especially after she's put earrings back in for the first time in a while.

So, I think there's a middle ground that I haven't seen discussed a lot so far -- while the earrings may cause significant problems, that's probably not the most likely situation. However that doesn't mean that it'll be hassle-free and trivial either. Many of her friends have had similar stories of needing to put a lot of energy into taking care of their piercings for a long time.

So it's a lot of responsibility for the kid and the kind of thing that can become yet another battle ground, and it sounds like there are lots of those to deal with right now anyway. I can imagine that being some of Mr. B's thinking -- that the last thing you guys need is yet another complication.

Is Mo generally careful about hygiene-type stuff? Do you have to remind him to brush his teeth, floss, that kind of thing?

Piercing infections aren't life-threatening or anything (though I guess they can be), but they're not fun to deal with either. And the whole aspect of needing to put earrings back in infected ears -- which is painful -- can be especially unpleasant.

I know several people who had to go the re-piercing route, it worked out fine for some and not-fine for others -- too much scar tissue in the original spot so had to move over to a weird uncentered spot, that sort of thing.

Meanwhile, not many boys have piercings here but the ones who do tend to be the jock types. The David Beckham/ American football player single or double diamond, not that big though and usually cubic zirconia. Artistic types have the gauges (big holes), which I do NOT like.

Anyway, as the above indicates, I did let sozlet get her ears pierced -- E.G. was a little less enthusiastic than I was but he pierced his own ears at 16 (when it definitely was a "gay thing," as in a signifier, and he did it in part to mess with people's heads and stand in support of gay friends who were experiencing a lot of harassment) -- and she's generally been good about taking care of them, and generally I have no regrets. But it definitely added one more complication to life.

Is he planning on paying for the piercing?

How old was Sozlet when she had her's done?

His hygiene is impeccable! We have to drag that kid out of the bathroom.

Now would really be a good time since we aren't in any helmet sports seasons and won't be until spring and that's just a batting helmet. His basketball coach has an earring so I don't suppose he'd object.

We don't really make him pay for his own birthday gifts but yes, he has the money and is willing to pay for it.

We have a good birthday planned for this year so I'm hoping that will take his mind off of it!