17
   

Man's life Over, Cops Decide He Watched Child Porn in First Class

 
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Sun 22 Jan, 2012 12:28 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
The issue is that people are actually being sentenced to far lower terms than the Federal minimum guideines ostensibly impose. And that's the issue you choose to overlook.


You got to be kidding me you think unlike the majority of Federal judges that the guideline are fair and proper?

An yes in some some repeat some Federal circuits Federal judges are allow to go below the guidelines but in others they had no such freedoms.

Oh I do care more for the harm and the cost of insane sentences to the society as a whole then such people as the professor on the plane welfare.

A 18 years old college student who was a victim himself of child abuse should had his life ruin and send to prison for ten years for having child porn is insane not only from the point of view of fairness to the young man but from the great cost of ruining a young life that the society is bearing.

It would be far cheaper to monitor him for a decade or so and mandate treatment instead of throwing his life away.

There come a time when the punishment is so out of line with the misdeed that the crime is more by the government then the person who broke a law that carry such insane punishment levels
firefly
 
  2  
Sun 22 Jan, 2012 12:38 pm
@BillRM,
blah, blah, blah...

tell us some more how you think pedophiles, who you see as "useful people" should be spared harsh punishments for laws they knowingly chose to violate...
Quote:
monitor him for a decade or so and mandate treatment instead of throwing his life away.

Why don't we just monitor burglars too, and bank robbers as well, and mandate treatment for their urge to steal, instead of throwing them in jail? Rolling Eyes

People throw their own lives away when they choose to violate child pornography laws--just like that professor on the plane did. The government has every right to enforce the existing laws these people choose to violate.

I'm not joining you in being a bleeding heart for pedophiles.
BillRM
 
  1  
Sun 22 Jan, 2012 12:57 pm
@firefly,
LOL so no efforts should be make to save the future of an 18 years old college student who was a victim of child sexual abused himself?

We should punish him to a greater degree then someone who placed a gun to someone head to rob them even those he did not directly harm anyone?

How is this kind of government actions any more moral then the adult who sexual abused him as a child in the first place?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Sun 22 Jan, 2012 01:17 pm
@firefly,
DAVID wrote:
In effect, this law is an effort at thought control.
The Founders woud have been aghast.
firefly wrote:
People can think about anything they want, including pedophilic fantasies of sex with with children,
that's quite different than possessing the actual material of child pornography.
Art is an expression of thought. Do u see that?
That is the reason that art from different artists, different minds,
is not all the same.




firefly wrote:
Is thinking about having an arsenol of automatic weapons and hundreds of guns,
or thinking about having a large stash of cocaine or heroin, the same as actually possessing those items?
That is not art (tho the police have commended me upon the beauty of my ordnance at gunnery ranges).




firefly wrote:
No one's thoughts are being controlled.
When the commies (Red Chinese) did it during the Korean War, that was openly the reason.
We found POWs all carrying pocket diaries in which thay were required
by their commissars to record their thoughts.
If the commissar suspected (or he alleged that he suspected)
any un-communist ideas, his victim was in BIG trouble.
I saw a Chinese fugitive from its slavery, who attested on TV
that thay had been ordered not to think of sex,
but instead, to think of the communist party
and to meticulously record their thoughts in that regard
on an hourly basis,
my point being that it HAS been done; it is not unprecedented.

I feel like a voice crying in the wilderness,
with no libertarians to energetically defeat oppression.
It keeps getting worse n worse.

I woud not send that depraved person that fotografed my rear end
to prison for any number of years, nor minutes, nor nanoseconds.
It is clear that his brain is twisted (figuratively speaking) n perverted,
but I have no lust for anti-sicko VENGEANCE.
His offense is trivial. That conclusion is not based upon my age.
If it had happened in my childhood (picture taken from afar)
I 'd not have gotten much excited about it; curious, maybe.

If he had sold copies,
then maybe I 'd be equitably entitled to share the profits.

If an artist sees Whistler's mom
and then, from memory, he paints a picture of her,
is she rightfully entitled to share in revenue from its sale in a gallery ?





David
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sun 22 Jan, 2012 01:26 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
I'm not joining you in being a bleeding heart for pedophiles.

Nor will you be joining the call for reasonable and rational law. You like it when the state chops citizens off at the knees on a whim and an emotional appeal.
firefly
 
  1  
Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:01 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
You like it when the state chops citizens off at the knees on a whim and an emotional appeal.

You mean when they arrest these pedophiles for possessing child pornography in their homes, or on their computers, in clear violation of existing laws?

Yes, I approve of the state doing that.

And what "chops [such] citizens off at the knees" is the fact that the child pornography is found in their possession, and they don't have a bullshit defense to hide behind. If they don't like the penalties they might face, they should not violate the laws.

As I said, I'm not joining you in being a bleeding heart for pedophiles.



hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:20 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
As I said, I'm not joining you in being a bleeding heart for pedophiles.


And by not being willing to take an objective look at the scope and reach of our law, nor being willing to consider if the state operates with an even hand or not, you end up being a supporter of a bad law book and an unjust state. Increasing Americans are facing up to what America has become. You and your kind are on borrowed time, America will only stomach injustice to a point and we have crossed it.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:24 pm
@hawkeye10,
So Hawkeye, do you believe that the state should be allowed to execute a man when there is DNA evidence that could exonerate him, or do you think that the execution should be stayed until the DNA evidence has been examined?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:25 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

So Hawkeye, do you believe that the state should be allowed to execute a man when there is DNA evidence that could exonerate him, or do you think that the execution should be stayed until the DNA evidence has been examined?


I do not believe in the death penalty except occasionally for high treason. The state rarely has the right to take a human life.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:27 pm
@hawkeye10,
So do you think that a man should spend the rest of his life in jail when there is DNA evidence that could exonerate him?
firefly
 
  1  
Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:36 pm
An update on the case that provoked this thread.

The case that Hawkeye was sure would turn out to be another instance of the state clobbering an innocent man. Rolling Eyes
Quote:
More search warrants released on child porn case of ex-professor
By Roxana Orellana
The Salt Lake Tribune
First published Jan 20 2012 08:51PM
Updated Jan 22, 2012 12:36AM

Three more search warrants were released Friday in connection with the investigation of former University of Utah professor Grant Douglas Smith, who was arrested and charged with viewing explicit child pornography on a Utah-to-Boston flight in November.

Detectives with the Utah Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force obtained information from Smith’s Gmail and Facebook accounts, two computer towers, two laptops, two hard drives, MP3 player, DVDs and CDs.

The search warrants were executed Dec. 12 and Dec. 14. Information on the online accounts were obtained from Google Inc. and Facebook Inc. The towers, laptops and other items were seized from a Murray condominium. The warrant does not specified who the condo belongs to.

"There is probable cause to believe that the gmail.com account belonging to or used by Grant Smith was used to contact other people for the sharing of child pornography," states one of the warrants made public in 3rd District Court on Friday.

Smith, 47, was arrested in late November after a Delta airline passenger said he saw Smith, who was sitting in first class, viewing child pornography on his laptop computer while the plane was en route to Boston.

At the time of the arrest, Smith was divorcing his wife — the divorce was expected to be final by Nov. 28 — and he had moved into the Cottonwood Heights condo during their divorce proceedings. Investigators allege Smith was residing with his girlfriend at the residence.

According to the search warrants, Utah investigators became aware of the child-pornography allegations Nov. 26 after a Massachusetts state trooper called to tell them about Smith. The trooper told Utah investigators that Smith had given him permission to search his MacBook computer and iPhone, and authorities found evidence of child pornography on his laptop, the search warrants state. The pornographic images allegedly from a paid site showed naked girls, ages 5 to 10, engaging in sexual activity with adult males, according to the warrants. Smith told investigators he started deleting pornographic images on his computer during the flight because he was "bored," the warrants state.

Utah task force members first executed a search warrant at Smith’s Country Wood Circle condo on Nov. 28.

Massachusetts’ authorities worried Smith would ask his girlfriend to destroy evidence at the condo, that search warrants said. During that search, Utah police seized a computer, two hard drives, a cellphone, undeveloped film, an iPod, a video recorder, a camera and a telephone bill, according to the warrant.

The December warrants have much of the same information as the Nov. 28 warrant. They state that Smith confessed to trading pornographic images of "teens" with others via the internet.

Smith, considered one of the top professors in the world in the field of molecular engineering, resigned from his position following the arrest.

University of Utah police started its own investigation into Smith after learning of his arrest. The warrants claim the university police were looking for any items that might contain evidence but that were owned by the university. The warrants did not state if any such items were found and if they were turned over to investigators.

Smith was reported to have bailed out of a Massachusetts jail in early December. His next court appearance is scheduled for Feb. 28.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53343595-78/smith-warrants-search-utah.html.csp

Quote:
Warrant reveals disturbing details about U. professor's alleged porn involvement
By Hunter Schwarz
January 20th, 2012

SALT LAKE CITY — Investigators suspect a University of Utah professor charged with viewing child pornography while flying on an airplane "is attracted" to young girls between 5 and 7 years old, a newly-released search warrant states...

Smith apparently obtained child pornography from a paid website and downloaded images of girls as young as 5 years old, the search warrant states. Investigators said they also found images on his cellphone of fully-clothed young girls that were taken from parks and airports.

"It appears that Smith is attracted to female children ages 5-7 based on the images they found on his iPhone and computer ..." the warrant states...
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=960&sid=18950067


hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:37 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

So do you think that a man should spend the rest of his life in jail when there is DNA evidence that could exonerate him?


As you see with my views on sexual regulation I am in favor of concentrating on doing things right the first time...when it comes to sex that means letting people have sexual freedom and the ability to get what they want without resorting to force, and when it comes to the penal population making sure that justice prevails in the courts so the innocent people do not end up in prison. We already know that we have bad law and abusive DA's, so lets take care of that now. Re those who have been already condemned by our unjust state we must have some ability to revisit their unjust denial of freedom, but we can not spend too much time on that because if we did we would never have the time and energy to fix the root problem.

For the most part I believe that the innocent in our jails should stay there, as a testament to what happens when the citizens allow the state to become corrupt and abusive. We cant save everyone, and so the rational person must conclude that we must focus our efforts on where they would do the most good for the most people. We have a supreme obligation to right America before we hand it over to our kids, and that mission takes priority over obtaining justice for the many innocent who sit in our jails, as well as the massive numbers of people who have been harshly treated by our state with punishment that does not fit their crimes.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:40 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Three more search warrants were released Friday in connection with the investigation of former University of Utah professor Grant Douglas Smith, who was arrested and charged with viewing explicit child pornography on a Utah-to-Boston flight in November


They are sure taking their sweet time arn't they....what the hell, it is just a citizens life they are ******* with, no need to pursue the facts of the case in a timely manor. Letting the accused sit and spin as a standard manipulative technique used by the state to try to force plea deals.
0 Replies
 
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:44 pm
@firefly,

Taking photos of 5 - 10 year olds, at airports, fully clothed is a step beyond, watching porn of children... It's a scary thought. No one can not believe that "watching" and "preying" are two different things... This is what I stated at the beginning of this thread... Obsession leads to reality and he's taken that step. Had he not been caught who knows whether or not, one of those little children, fully clothed where the parents turned away, for a blink of the eye, would not have been in serious trouble...

Whilst watching porn of 5 - 10 year olds engaged in sexual acts with men is bad enough, seriously bad... The above is more scary in the real world because it is the real world.
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:48 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
For the most part I believe that the innocent in our jails should stay there, as a testament to what happens when the citizens allow the state to become corrupt and abusive


Hawkeye, I don't get it.

You are mad that this guy was splattered across the news, name revealed and thrown to the wolves, on a wimb.. In-other-words, as you stated, it could have been kids playing, his kids. How dare the law do that. Yet, it appears that he is one of the men that should be locked up.. He is a danger to society, taking photos of innocent children, at airports, ( a parents worse nightmare), not because he loves photography and that of children, the guy paid for porn of 5 - 10 year old children having sex, paid for it... And, progressed. Only to be caught fortunately before too late.


Yet, for the most part you think that innocent people should be pawns? Made example for the real crooks?

That goes against in my opinion, your original argument.

firefly
 
  1  
Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:51 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
For the most part I believe that the innocent in our jails should stay their, as a testament to what happens when the citizens allow the state to become corrupt and abusive. We cant save everyone, we must concentrate our efforts on where they would do the most good for the most people.

So, complaining on the internet, in forums like this, about what you see as the too harsh penalties for child pornography possession, is your idea of concentrating " our efforts on where they would do the most good for the most people"? Rolling Eyes Most people do not possess child pornography, most people are not pedophiles, this is hardly doing "the most good for the most people".

On the other hand, anyone in the least concerned with justice would demand that no one who can be exonerated should be sitting in a prison cell.

Your notions of justice are as screwed up as most of your ideas.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:53 pm
@firefly,
It just shows how full of holes his position is. He's not interested in justice, but like Bill, only in what affects him. He's already got a martyrdom complex, and he's self-centred enough to let others be the actual martyrs.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:56 pm
@hawkeye10,
izzythepush wrote:
So do you think that a man should spend the rest of his life in jail when there is DNA evidence that could exonerate him?
hawkeye10 wrote:
. . . We have a supreme obligation to right America
before we hand it over to our kids
,
WHEN is this event scheduled to occur???????



hawkeye10 wrote:
and that mission takes priority over obtaining justice for the many innocent who sit in our jails, . . .
Really??
How did this prioritization get organized and by whose authority????





David
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:58 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
Quote:
Yet, it appears that he is one of the men that should be locked up..


We dont know that, because we dont have the slightest idea of what he was looking at. I would have a problem with him looking at young girls masturbating, being fondled in the crotch area, or engaged in sex, but we have no indication that this guy had any of that. In America "sexual act" in child porn cases can be an innocent as being fully clothed in the wrong pose or having what appears to be a sexual gaze, and girls 5-10 engaged in "sexual acts" is all the further that the state has alleged. The state routinely uses language in an organized effort to mislead the people, look no further than the run up to the invasion of Iraq for illustration.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Sun 22 Jan, 2012 02:59 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

It just shows how full of holes his position is. He's not interested in justice, but like Bill, only in what affects him. He's already got a martyrdom complex, and he's self-centred enough to let others be the actual martyrs.


there is no separation between the level of justice in my collective and what affects me. How stupid do you think we are at A2K?
 

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