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Man's life Over, Cops Decide He Watched Child Porn in First Class

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Sat 3 Dec, 2011 11:40 am
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

Rape is a heinous crime, too, and everyone knows how difficult it is to get a conviction.

Murder is a heinous crime. Anyone heard of OJ Simpson?

It should be difficult to get a conviction....the penalties are extreme. It is too easy to get citizens to plead to sex crimes now because the state has become fanatical and abusive towards men. There was a time a few decaded ago where rape was too hard to get a conviction on...now it is too easy.
Ceili
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2011 11:41 am
@hawkeye10,
You really think fathers want you or any creep looking at their little girls or their little boys? This is a human thing, a moral issue and not a feminist agenda.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2011 11:41 am
@izzythepush,
BillRM wrote:
Fool the question was is a man who look at a fully develop under age 18 female
in a sexual manner should be consider a pedophilia or not.
izzythepush wrote:
It's not something that would be considered healthy,
but you're more concerned about satisfying your primitive urges,
and to hell with the effect on the victim.
What effect (from looking) have u specifically in mind ?
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2011 11:44 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

It should be difficult to get a conviction....

I agree, actually. I just disagree with your premise that child pornography is any more prejudicial than any other accusation.

Just more "the sky is falling" silliness from you.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2011 11:49 am
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

hawkeye10 wrote:

It should be difficult to get a conviction....

I agree, actually. I just disagree with your premise that child pornography is any more prejudicial than any other accusation.

Just more "the sky is falling" silliness from you.

Talking about the human condition is never "the sky is falling"...it is talking about what is.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Sat 3 Dec, 2011 11:53 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
BULLSHIT......my position is that our collective approach to sexual regulation is foolish and abusive. I further argue that our sexual requlation scheme has been corrupted by the feminists and has thus become a prime tool in their toolbox as they pursue the oppression of men.

So, you feel that sexualized images of children are legitimate "sex toys" for adults to use for purposes of enhancing their own sexual arousal and masturbatory satisfaction? And to criminalize child pornography is an "oppression of men"?

When you describe yourself as being a sexual deviate, you're really not kidding, are you? Rolling Eyes

And you just proved everything I said about you in my last post. Laughing

Your paranoid obsession with "feminists" really is delusional. Child pornography is illegal all around the globe--it is not "sexual regulation", it is criminal because it sexually abuses and exploits children--and it has absolutely nothing to do with feminism. These laws punish women, as well as men, for child pornography possession and creation. In yesterday's news there was a story about a female teacher arrested on such charges.

I think you are just angry at the feminists because they have bigger balls than you do and that makes you feel inadequate. Laughing This topic has nothing to do with feminism.
Quote:
It is too easy to get citizens to plead to sex crimes now because the state has become fanatical and abusive towards men...

Right--and the fact that they catch these creeps red-handed, with the child pornography in their possession, has nothing to do with why they are willing to take a plea rather than go to trial where they are certain to lose? Rolling Eyes


0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Sat 3 Dec, 2011 12:04 pm
@firefly,
I had taken note that you had yet to defend a minimum sentence of five years at the Federal level for such people as the college student with two naked thumbnails of fourteens years old not taking part in any sex acts.

Oh the states laws often give lessor punishments is not a justification for ruining a young man life for no good purpose in Federal courts for a crime that should be a slap on the wrist not a death sentence to him having any meaning future.

Of course Firefly you being the very dishonest person you are will try to turn this into my not wishing to punish severely anyone with child porn of a nature such as showing the raping of children.

At least I am in very good company with 70 percents of Federal judges agreeing with me.

I guess they must all be secret pedophilis by your way of thinking Firefly.


http://www.timesleader.com/news/Feds__Pa__differ_on_kid_porn_01-16-2011.html

The issue has garnered much attention within the federal judiciary. A number of federal judges who testified before regional hearings of the Federal Sentencing Commission have expressed concerns that the guideline ranges provide for disproportionate sentences.

“My experience with the guideline is that the people on the lowest rung of culpability, that is, people who download and view child pornography in private . . . but do not distribute or otherwise actively engage in this conduct, often under the guideline end up toward the statutory maximum. And there is something wrong with the guideline that does that,” U.S. District Judge Gregory Presnell of the Middle District of Florida testified before the commission.

Concern among the judiciary has become so great that many federal judges are opting not to follow the guidelines, which are optional.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note from me Firefly the guidelines are not reality optional in the normal sense of that term as the judges are suppose to follow them except in extreme cases and the government had appeal a numbers of below guidelines sentencing by judges to higher courts with mixed results and judges do tend to follow the guidelines even when not agreeing with them
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

According to the Federal Sentencing Commission, 53 percent of defendants sentenced for child pornography offenses in the third quarter of fiscal year 2009 received prison terms that were below the guideline range.
And a poll of federal judges conducted last year by Sentencing Commission showed that 70 percent believe the guidelines for possession and receipt of child pornography are too high.


firefly
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2011 12:12 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
According to the Federal Sentencing Commission, 53 percent of defendants sentenced for child pornography offenses in the third quarter of fiscal year 2009 received prison terms that were below the guideline range.

And that's because defendents are also offered plea deals that are lower than the mandatory minimum guidelines, as was the case in the story from this week's news that I posted.

So, people are already not always getting those mandatory minimum federal sentences you are carrying on about. And, if federal judges are already discussing and addressing the isuue, what are you carrying on about?
Quote:
I had taken note that you had yet to defend a minimum sentence of five years at the Federal level for such people as the college student with two naked thumbnails of fourteens years old not taking part in any sex acts.

That's because you have yet to post a link that gives all the details of the case. I wouldn't take your word for anything, given all the erroneous and distorted information you have already posted.

BillRM
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2011 12:23 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
So, people are already not always getting those mandatory minimum federal sentences you are carrying on about. And, if federal judges are already discussing and addressing the isuue, what are you carrying on about?


Because everyday in the Federal courts lives are being ruin for no good purpose because of congress rolling over to people like you in writing sex laws and setting punishment guidelines in a crazy and insane manner.
firefly
 
  2  
Sat 3 Dec, 2011 12:35 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:

Because everyday in the Federal courts lives are being ruin for no good purpose because of congress rolling over to people like you in writing sex laws and setting punishment guidelines in a crazy and insane manner.

Spare me your pity party for those guilty defendents, who were convicted because they chose to obtain and possess illegal material--knowing the penalty for such actions.

Providing pedophiles with their preferred type of masturbatory material is not my main concern in life. These people, who are convicted for possession of child pornography, contribute to ruining the lives of innocent children. Whether you see the punishment guidelines, which affect only federal prosecutions and not those at the state level, as "crazy and insane" also depends on how seriously you view the crime.

And I have no problem with federal judges reviewing the issue and effecting some changes in the guidelines. So I don't understand why you keep harping on this issue, or why you accuse me of all sorts of things which are untrue about me.
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Sat 3 Dec, 2011 01:21 pm
@firefly,
Quote:

Spare me your pity party for those guilty defendents


That is "concern for justice"....though I understand that you dont care about that.
firefly
 
  2  
Sat 3 Dec, 2011 01:30 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
That is "concern for justice"....though I understand that you dont care about that.

And where is your concern with justice for the victims--those innocent children, exploited through their sexualized images, just so these pedophiles can jerk off while viewing them?

Justice for the defendent is giving him due process in court. These defendents are afforded their Constitutional rights. They receive justice.

What I said to BillRM, I will say to you--Spare me your pity party for those guilty defendents. They chose to violate the child pornography laws, knowing what the penalty would be if they were caught.

BillRM
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2011 02:27 pm
@firefly,
I am sure the children of the man on the plane is going to be hurt far more by locking him up then his indirect actions harmed any child he happen to had view but who care as you do not care about children at all.

Children are just an emotional means of getting crazy laws passed.

Not to mention children who had seen their family home front door broken down in the middle of the night and their parents being held at gun point.

Still can not figure why most warrants can be serve without the swat team but a warrant to search for illegal computer files call for a swat team to raid middle class homes.
Miller
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2011 03:22 pm
I haven't followed up on this, although the man in question, for some reason looks familar to me.

I'm wondering, is it a crime to have pornography on your computer, or does it become a crime, when you start to view this porn? If it's a crime to view porn on an airplane in flight, is it also a crime to view porn, at home in the peace and quiet of your office or den?

What if you didn't know there was porn on your computer and you just happened to accidentally discover it?
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2011 03:25 pm
@Miller,
It's funny that you say that, if the cops grabbed my computer, I would be guilty, not because I watch porn, but I have certainly been invaded from time to time, with spam, not realising it, until I obviously protected the computer.

But, is there a difference in going "oh" and closing it, to "ohh" and looking further into it...Would the person who "dobbed" on him have not been able to tell the difference? A few seconds verses several minutes?

Miller
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2011 03:28 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
I noticed the spy (!) behind the Professor was also viewing the porn. Why didn't he avert his eyes?
Miller
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2011 03:30 pm
@Miller,
Why didn't the" spy " contact the Massachusetts State Police himself? Why did he have someone in Arizona do it?
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Sat 3 Dec, 2011 03:31 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
Quote:
But, is there a difference in going "oh" and closing it, to "ohh" and looking further into it...Would the person who "dobbed" on him have not been able to tell the difference? A few seconds verses several minutes?


Or not at all..there have been people who were convicted of having kiddie porn that they downloaded on LimeWire that according to the computer records were never opened, and yet they still found themselves convicted. The porn being on the computer is the crime, watched or not.

Quote:
Two years ago, in the hopes of being able to watch a "College Girls Gone Wild" video, Matthew White of Sacramento, CA, downloaded a file from Limewire.com that turned out to be child-porn. White immediately deleted the file, and thought nothing of it — until a full year later, when FBI agents came to White's home and asked permission to examine his hard drive, and White said yes.

They initially found no evidence of any illegal activity, but after subjecting White's hard drive to intensive forensic analysis in their lab, the Limewire file appeared — and with it the porn that Matthew had viewed (albeit momentarily) a year earlier. Although the FBI admitted that White had no current access to the porn they undeleted and despite White's claim that he had no pre-existing knowledge of the file's contents, the Feds arrested him.

Notwithstanding numerous publicly known complaints against Limewire.com for disguising illegal child porn files as something else, prosecutors told White he faced a 20-year prison sentence unless he took a plea bargain for three and a half years that included 10 years probation plus lifetime registration as a sex offender. Still claiming innocence, White took the deal.

Why did White cop a plea if he was innocent? Answer: possession of child-porn in any form — even unknowing possession — is a strict liability federal crime, like statutory rape. With strict liability, intent is not a factor: the act itself completes the crime. Under federal law, viewing any web content online automatically counts as possession because seeing it involves downloading images in RAM and temporarily storing (and thus, owning) them. Unless the facts are in dispute, there is no trial by jury.

Now consider the case of Anthony Diodoro, a 26-year-old from Delaware County, PA, who admitted knowingly viewing 370 child-porn images online at various Websites. Diodoro confessed he visited them for the express purpose of viewing child-porn. However, Pennsylvania law states that one must have "knowing possession" of child-porn in order for it to be a crime. There's no strict liability here.

Accordingly, a three-judge panel concluded that Diodoro could not be convicted of "knowing possession" of child-porn images because there was no evidence Diodoro knew his computer was storing the images in its Internet cache file. "Because this is a penal statute with an ambiguous term when it comes to computer technology, it must be construed• in favor of the defendant," wrote Judge Richard Klein. "We note that it is well within the power of the Legislature to criminalize the act of viewing child pornography on a Website without [permanently] saving the image," Klein concluded.

Regardless of whether it is reasonable to assert that a person can possess a digital object that he deleted from his computer and which he cannot now access, the takeaway lesson here is understanding the distinction between strict liability statutes and crimes that require intent as an element. The late Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, when asked to define pornography, responded, "I know it when I see it." The problem is that now the government can put you in jail for not knowing it when you see it! Had White's federal crime included the element of "knowingly" storing downloaded data and had Diodoro's state crime been one of strict liability, then White would be free and Diodoro would be in jail for life.

These cases underscore the unintended consequences that occur when old laws cannot be precisely construed to fit new technology. Meanwhile, innocent people are jailed and criminals run free. It goes without saying: until such laws are revised, users would be well-advised to routinely subject their hard drives to a government-grade data wipe.

ARTHUR GINGRANDE [ [email protected]], ICP, is co-founder and partner of IMERGE Consulting, a document-centric management consulting firm. Mr. Gingrande holds a Juris Doctor degree from the Massachusetts School of Law.

http://documentmedia.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=Publishing&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&tier=4&id=897E4D9C42844D45BB6BD1FDCCBF3C78
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2011 03:48 pm
@Miller,
Quote:
Grant Smith, of Cottonwood Heights, Utah, was sitting in first class Saturday afternoon when a fellow passenger saw the pornographic images on Smith’s laptop and alerted the flight crew
.

Were did you read he was behind the guy, or reported it in another State, is this the same case?

I guess also, that's a sweeping statement on my behalf, ie) we don't know if Grant just looked and turned it off and whether the passenger, assumed he turned it off because he was busted, or whether he was viewing it for several minutes or an hour...
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2011 03:49 pm
@hawkeye10,
I am sure that's factual.

My point was, the guy who dobbed him in, surely, must have felt he was viewing it for a considerable amount of time in order to act.
 

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