17
   

Man's life Over, Cops Decide He Watched Child Porn in First Class

 
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Fri 2 Dec, 2011 07:18 pm
@DrewDad,
Quote:
Hawk and BillRM are two others that make me want to do so.


We had cases of innocent people homes being raid by swat teams and held at gun point on their floor looking for child porn.

I guess the welfare of the children in those families is of no concern to it for the goods of the child crowd.

One question why swat teams to serve warrants on a households that someone in it had download illegal computer files?

Such a heavy hand is normally are use in known high risk situations like major drugs houses raids or gang raids.

http://www.buffalonews.com/city/communities/buffalo/article369032.ece


West Side businessman traumatized at home because of 'Wi-Fi theft'By Dan Herbeck


At about 7 a.m. March 7, federal agents battered open the back door of a Buffalo businessman's home, where they seized his computer after allegedly pulling him down a flight of stairs.

They told him he was in a lot of trouble, accusing him of downloading child pornography, although they didn't arrest him.

The federal agents pointed automatic weapons, scaring the businessman and his wife.

Three days later, agents returned the computer to the man. Law enforcement officials now realize he never sent or downloaded any images of child porn.

Someone else, it turned out, repeatedly used the businessman's wireless Internet service -- commonly known as Wi-Fi -- downloading child porn onto a different computer from an apartment close to the businessman's West Side residence.

A Buffalo man -- John E. Luchetti, a 25-year-old neighbor of the businessman -- was arrested in the case Wednesday.

But so far, there has been no apology. (Update: The businessman received an apology on Thursday.) Nor any offer of payment for the battered door. And the businessman, who did nothing wrong, had to hire attorneys to represent him.

hawkeye10
 
  0  
Fri 2 Dec, 2011 07:22 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
One question why swat teams to serve warrants on a households that someone in it had download illegal computer files?


Agents for the state are big into message sending...the intended message is "roll when we say to roll or else we will **** up your life completely, capiche!'
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Fri 2 Dec, 2011 07:23 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The difference is that those who claim that they plead guilty of one charge for the crime only because going to court could have resulted in four other guilty verdicts for the same act because of the charge loading practice have a good argument that they were bullied by the state into taking the plea bargain

In the case of child pornography, however, the state can display the actual pornography at trial. That's rather damning evidence, don't you think? The state doesn't have to do much bullying to get someone to take a plea because the probability is high the defendent would lose at trial.
And many of these people have violated more than one aspect of the law--they have sought, received, and possessed child pornography and sent it to others, for instance.

But these aren't exactly innocent people.
BillRM
 
  1  
Fri 2 Dec, 2011 07:28 pm
@hawkeye10,
Yes if the state had a week case on a man too poor to make bail instead of dropping the charges they will often offer a time serve plea bargain and the man then had the choice of sitting in jail for six months or so more waiting for a trial or walking free that day by pleading guilty.

Then we had domestic cases where the state does not had a case however by having a no contract order in place against both the wishes of the man and the woman the deal often offer is if you plead guilty we will had the court removed the no contact order.

Otherwise it could be a year or more before you can legally even talk to your wife let alone go home.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Fri 2 Dec, 2011 07:29 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
But these aren't exactly innocent people.
Those up for child porn law violations are some of the least likely to get a fair jury trial for the same reason that child rapists are the most hated (and I think the most likely to end up with a shank) in prison. The state has a great deal of leverage in getting guilty pleas from the innocent, which is why it should be working overtime to make sure that alleged child pornographers get an even break. The state is on the wrong side of justice here, which compounds its moral failure.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Fri 2 Dec, 2011 07:31 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Otherwise it could be a year or more before you can legally even talk to your wife let alone go home.


"DO WHAT WE WANT OR ELSE WE WILL **** UP YOUR LIFE, BUDDY!"
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Fri 2 Dec, 2011 07:36 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
In the case of child pornography, however, the state can display the actual pornography at trial. That's rather damning evidence, don't you think?


In one case I know about somehow the state got a conviction using a thumbnail of one picture that was no longer on the computer in question. There was no child porn pictures except maybe for that thumbnail of a picture.

Knowing the lack of details of a thumbnail I find it amazing that they could get a conviction and no I do not think that one thumbnail is damning at all.
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Fri 2 Dec, 2011 07:39 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Then we had domestic cases where the state does not had a case however by having a no contract order in place against both the wishes of the man and the woman the deal often offer is if you plead guilty we will had the court removed the no contact order.

Do you realize what a struggle it is to try and interpret what you write?

Quote:
Otherwise it could be a year or more before you can legally even talk to your wife let alone go home.

To what state or municipality are you referring?
BillRM
 
  0  
Fri 2 Dec, 2011 07:42 pm
@BillRM,
Comment when you copies directories over from one computer to another you can indeed end up with thumbnails of pictures that was never on your computer.



http://www.forensicon.com/resources/casesummaries/cs_vosburgh.asp


United States v. Vosburgh
Court Upholds Thumbnail File as Sufficient Evidence602 F.3d 512 (3d Cir. 2010)

On an appeal of a conviction for the possession of child pornography, the Third Circuit held that a thumbnail file recovered during the government's forensic investigation was sufficient evidence to find that the defendant had previously possessed the corresponding full-size images.

The government's case began when an FBI Special Agent went undercover on a website known for the distribution of child pornography, advertising a link to a video that actually recorded users' IP addresses. After the defendant clicked on the link, the agent used his IP address to subpoena the defendant's Internet Service Provider for his name and home address. The agent then obtained a search warrant for the defendant's residence.

Upon executing the search warrant, FBI agents seized multiple pieces of computer equipment, including the defendant's external hard drive. When the FBI's computer forensics expert examined the hard drive, he did not find any full-size images of child pornography but instead recovered a thumbs.db file containing two incriminating thumbnail images. The thumbs.db file is created automatically by the Windows operating system when a user views thumbnail images of other image files contained within the same computer folder and is often hidden from the user.

The FBI proceeded to prosecute the defendant on the basis of the recovered thumbnail images. At trial, the government's forensics expert testified that the contents of the thumbs.db file indicated that the full-size images were once stored on the defendant's computer and had been accessed shortly before the seizure of the hard drive. The defendant's computer expert demonstrated that the thumbs.db file could have been copied from another user and would have retained the thumbnail images even if the full-size images of child pornography were not also copied to the external hard drive.

On appeal, the defendant argued that the thumbs.db file provided insufficient evidence that he had ever possessed the incriminating images. The Third Circuit found that this argument lacked merit and that "the jury could have reasonably inferred from this testimony that [the defendant] not only possessed, but knowingly possessed, those pictures." The thumbnail image, combined with the computer forensics expert's testimony, provided sufficient evidence to support the conclusion that the defendant had, at one time, possessed the full-size images required for conviction.

Download Case Summary [PDF]

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firefly
 
  1  
Fri 2 Dec, 2011 07:55 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Those up for child porn law violations are some of the least likely to get a fair jury trial for the same reason that child rapists are the most hated (and I think the most likely to end up with a shank) in prison. The state has a great deal of leverage in getting guilty pleas from the innocent, which is why it should be working overtime to make sure that alleged child pornographers get an even break. The state is on the wrong side of justice here, which compounds its moral failure.

What's your idea of an "even break"? Rolling Eyes

I see no reason why people accused of crimes involving child pornography would be less likely to get a fair jury trial than anyone else. The state still has to produce the evidence of child pornography to get a conviction.

Jurors are capable of being fair and objective--unike the inmates you are comparing them to. They want to see the evidence and be convinced by it.

People who sexually abuse children, even through the viewing of child pornography, are not popular in the prison population. Even the other inmates find such crimes abhorrent and morally repulsive. A pedophile priest, who sexually abused children, was killed in a prison by his cell mate.
Quote:
The state is on the wrong side of justice here..

The state's job is to try to convict the guilty--those they believe violated the law. That's the right side of justice.

What convicts people on child pornography charges is the fact that the pornography was found in their possession. If they had the child pornography, they are not innocent.


firefly
 
  2  
Fri 2 Dec, 2011 07:58 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
The thumbnail image, combined with the computer forensics expert's testimony, provided sufficient evidence to support the conclusion that the defendant had, at one time, possessed the full-size images required for conviction.

The man was guilty.
BillRM
 
  0  
Fri 2 Dec, 2011 08:11 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
The man was guilty
.

The question is guilty of what?

Now every time someone send you a zip directory of his family pictures I guess you will need to check if he also send you a thumbnail of a child porn picture.

Come to think about it others need to have that concern but I do not as no one is going to be able to dig around my hard drives.

Love the idea however that computers drives that contain many hundreds of thousands of files gather over more then a decade in my case that one or two thumbnails files of a k or two from god know where could end up convicting me or anyone else of a serous crime.
firefly
 
  3  
Fri 2 Dec, 2011 08:17 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:

The question is guilty of what?

Possession of child pornography.

You don't even understand the material you post. You bought the defense argument that the thumbnail just got slipped in there "by accident". The government proved the defendent had had the full size images at one time and he still retained the thumbnail of those images. There was no "accidental" thumbnail deposited in his computer. He had downloaded the child pornography images--intentionally.

The moral of the tale: Don't visit Web sites known to destribute child pornography and downoad images there.

I find it really impressive how the government catches these people.
BillRM
 
  0  
Fri 2 Dec, 2011 08:55 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
The government proved the defendent had had the full size images at one time and he still retained the thumbnail of those images. There was no "accidental" thumbnail deposited in his computer. He had downloaded the child pornography images--intentionally.


Zero proof of that......................

Now where did these full scale pictures go to Firefly??????!!!!!??????!!!

Did he had a wipe file program on this system and if so was there any indication that it had been run of late?

Was his trash can enable or not and how full was it?

If he had just deleted the jps in a normal manner and the system had later over write them completely the thumbnails should had also been deleted at the same time.

Also in the normal scheme of things the OS will over write files by itself but that no parts of two files remain from just a short time before without being wipe smell very highly indeed.

Oh for example the state computer expert in the Casey case claimed that there had been eighty searches on the subject of chloroform and in fact there had only been one search done on the subject.

So that the state expert in this case "proving" that there was such files on the man system without also explaining what the hell happen to them and why the thumbnail was let behind seems to raise one hell of a lot of questions and reasonable doubts.
firefly
 
  5  
Fri 2 Dec, 2011 09:08 pm
@BillRM,
The man was convicted and the conviction was upheld on appeal.

The expert may have explained what happened but it just wasn't included in the appeal decision you posted. That's not a transcript of the proceedings, or of the trial, it's a summary of the appeal decision.

You seem alone in your reasonable doubts. The man was found guilty.

Somehow, I suspect these government experts are much smarter and more knowledgeable than you are. And they can explain their opinions, and they have to withstand cross-examination by the defense. The expert was, apparently, convincing.
BillRM
 
  1  
Fri 2 Dec, 2011 09:14 pm
@firefly,
Strange Firefly when two murderers was found guilty by two juries and the verdicts where upheld in appeal after appeal you did not have any respect for those verdicts yet here with all the open questions you are sure he is guilty base of a jury verdict and one layer of appeals.

0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Fri 2 Dec, 2011 09:15 pm
Quote:
California man accused of having massive child porn collection
Dec 2, 2011
By Alex Dobuzinskis

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A Southern California man was arrested on Friday and accused of possessing what prosecutors called one of the largest child pornography collections ever recovered.

Michael Peterson, a 58-year-old pipefitter, was taken into custody at his home in Ontario, about 35 miles east of Los Angeles, on charges of possessing, receiving and distributing child pornography.

Acting on a search warrant, federal agents had raided Peterson's home in July and seized computers and several hard drives with 500,000 images and 7,500 videos of suspected child pornography, U.S. District Attorney's spokesman Thom Mrozek said.

"It's not uncommon for us to see collections of thousands and sometimes tens of thousands of images, but in this case we have over half a million images being stored on numerous devices," Mrozek said.

"It may in fact be the largest child pornography collection ever discovered in the United States," he said.

The children in the images and videos range in age from 18 months to 17 years old and were either nude or involved in sexually explicit acts, the criminal complaint filed against Peterson said.

When Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents raided Peterson's home, they found two laptops on a table with a half-eaten bowl of cereal, one of them actively downloading child porn through a peer-to-peer network, the criminal complaint said.

Virginia Kice, a spokeswoman for ICE, said that episode demonstrated how much time Peterson devoted to collecting child pornography online.

"It's someone who's a prolific user, and it's frankly a frightening thought," Kice said.

Authorities found Peterson after an undercover federal agent downloaded child pornography from him through a peer-to-peer sharing website, and tracked down the Internet Protocol number on Peterson's computer, the complaint said.

ICE agents led the investigation that nabbed Peterson because the agency is charged with investigating cases of child pornography, Kice said. U.S. authorities have not accused Peterson of producing child pornography himself.

He faces a maximum sentence of 50 years in prison if convicted. An attorney for Peterson could not be reached for comment.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/02/us-child-porn-idUSTRE7B12KM20111202


Hawkeye, I don't think they will have to bully this guy into taking a plea deal. Would you suggest he go to trial? Laughing
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Fri 2 Dec, 2011 09:19 pm
@Ticomaya,
Ticomaya wrote:
BillRM wrote:
Otherwise it could be a year or more before you can legally even talk to your wife let alone go home.

To what state or municipality are you referring?
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Fri 2 Dec, 2011 11:41 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Hawkeye, I don't think they will have to bully this guy into taking a plea deal. Would you suggest he go to trial?


We know how this will go, they will add charges to make a make up 20-30 years max penalty then offer him a deal of five years if he pleads guilty...he will take the five years guilty or not because that offers him some chance of getting some kind of paycheck and thus providing for his kids. The state will claim that they got a dangerous predator off of the streets and Smith can not say anything or else he will endanger his plea deal and go back to 20-30 years. The masses will think that the state saved them from a dangerous guy, and the truth will forever be lost, but very likely a guy will be sitting in jail for years and be a lifetime sex offender who would not have been if justice had been allowed to work.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Fri 2 Dec, 2011 11:57 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
I see no reason why people accused of crimes involving child pornography would be less likely to get a fair jury trial than anyone else. The state still has to produce the evidence of child pornography to get a conviction.


BULLSHIT. It is well known that humans are prejudicial, which is why we go to such lengths to try to get a good jury and to keep out of evidence anything that would play on that natural tendency of prejudice when the state tries to railroad a defendant. Child abusers are the most hated people on earth, which is why it is highly important that we pay attention to how they are treated in the "justice" system. America fails the test.
 

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