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Iran - What Nuclear Weapons Program?

 
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 28 Feb, 2012 10:10 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
One thing Truman insisted on from the start: The decision to use the bombs, and the responsibility it entailed, was his. Over the years, he gave different, and contradictory, grounds for his decision. Sometimes he implied that he had acted simply out of revenge. To a clergyman who criticized him, Truman responded, testily:

Nobody is more disturbed over the use of Atomic bombs than I am but I was greatly disturbed over the unwarranted attack by the Japanese on Pearl Harbor and their murder of our prisoners of war. The only language they seem to understand is the one we have been using to bombard them.88

Such reasoning will not impress anyone who fails to see how the brutality of the Japanese military could justify deadly retaliation against innocent men, women, and children. Truman doubtless was aware of this, so from time to time he advanced other pretexts. On August 9, 1945, he stated: "The world will note that the first atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, a military base. That was because we wished in this first attack to avoid, insofar as possible, the killing of civilians."89

This, however, is absurd. Pearl Harbor was a military base. Hiroshima was a city, inhabited by some three hundred thousand people, which contained military elements. In any case, since the harbor was mined and the U.S. Navy and Air Force were in control of the waters around Japan, whatever troops were stationed in Hiroshima had been effectively neutralized.


Hiroshima was a huge military center that contained tens of thousands of Japanese soldiers. It was Japan's primary military port, and the launching point for most of Japan's genocidal invasions of their Asian neighbors. It was also the military headquarters in charge of repelling any invasion in the southern half of Japan (and for a while we were contemplating launching our invasion in the south).



Quote:
On other occasions, Truman claimed that Hiroshima was bombed because it was an industrial center. But, as noted in the U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey, "all major factories in Hiroshima were on the periphery of the city – and escaped serious damage."90 The target was the center of the city.


Truman may have confused Hiroshima with Nagasaki.

Nagasaki was the one that was bombed because it was an industrial center.



Quote:
That Truman realized the kind of victims the bombs consumed is evident from his comment to his cabinet on August 10, explaining his reluctance to drop a third bomb: "The thought of wiping out another 100,000 people was too horrible," he said; he didn't like the idea of killing "all those kids."91 Wiping out another one hundred thousand people . . . all those kids.


Abhorrence is relative. Truman only delayed the third bomb by three days, from August 17-18 to August 20-21.

The lack of a third bomb had more to do with Japan surrendering on August 14 than it did with Truman's brief delay of the bomb.



Quote:
Moreover, the notion that Hiroshima was a major military or industrial center is implausible on the face of it.


Hiroshima was a huge military center that contained tens of thousands of Japanese soldiers. It was Japan's primary military port, and the launching point for most of Japan's genocidal invasions of their Asian neighbors. It was also the military headquarters in charge of repelling any invasion in the southern half of Japan (and for a while we were contemplating launching our invasion in the south).



Quote:
The city had remained untouched through years of devastating air attacks on the Japanese home islands, and never figured in Bomber Command's list of the 33 primary targets.92


That is because it was chosen as an A-bomb target early in the bombing campaign, and was thereafter off limits to conventional bombing.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Feb, 2012 01:44 pm
Gen. McCaffrey privately briefs NBC execs on war with Iran
www.salon.com
Exclusive: Leaked PowerPoint to NBC execs: He all but predicts war with Iran within the next 90 days..
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Feb, 2012 02:02 pm
@edgarblythe,
Then he sort of backtracks at the end of the briefing.

Thanks, Edgar. I don't watch NBC, but he looks familiar. I wonder if CNN uses him as one of their 'analysts', too.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Feb, 2012 08:02 pm
@oralloy,

Quote:
On other occasions, Truman claimed that Hiroshima was bombed because it was an industrial center. But, as noted in the U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey, "all major factories in Hiroshima were on the periphery of the city – and escaped serious damage."90 The target was the center of the city.


The target was a hospital.

War crimes, pure and simple, but hardly the first one. The US had been fire bombing Japanese cities for months, directly targeting civilians. And this was hardly new. It had happened in the Philippines, it happened in Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Brazil, Indonesia, Chile, El Salvador, Bolivia, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Cuba, ... .
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 04:54 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
Quote:
On other occasions, Truman claimed that Hiroshima was bombed because it was an industrial center. But, as noted in the U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey, "all major factories in Hiroshima were on the periphery of the city – and escaped serious damage."90 The target was the center of the city.


The target was a hospital.


The target was a huge military center that was filled with tens of thousands of soldiers, was Japan's primary military port and the launching point for most of their genocidal invasions of their neighbors, and was the headquarters in charge of repelling any invasion in the southern half of Japan (and for awhile we were thinking of invading in the south).



JTT wrote:
The US had been fire bombing Japanese cities for months, directly targeting civilians.


Nope. The target was not civilians. The target was Japan's war industry.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 07:18 pm
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 07:25 pm
@edgarblythe,
It would be true if any GOP was president.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 08:45 pm
It could be true, if Obama was president.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 08:47 pm
@edgarblythe,
I hope you are both wrong in your assessments of presidential priorities. I know the first job of a politician is to get reelected, but this is over the top.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 08:54 pm
@roger,
Over, under - I don't write it, just report it.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 09:00 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:
I hope you are both wrong in your assessments of presidential priorities. I know the first job of a politician is to get reelected, but this is over the top.


I presume the video alleges that Obama will bomb Iran to get Jewish votes? (I haven't watched it)

If so, no. Obama might decide to bomb Iran, but the reason will not be to get Jewish votes.



If Obama decides to bomb Iran, it will be for one of these reasons:

a) He decides that bombing Iran is a better option than crushing them with sanctions.

b) He believes the bombing is inevitable due to Israeli plans to do it. And if it has to be done, the US might as well make sure it is done thoroughly.

c) Israel bombs Iran, and then Iran's subsequent tantrum crosses some of our red lines and we decide to retaliate.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 09:02 pm
@oralloy,
I take that as a more plausible possibility(s).
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 09:19 pm
I believe people are commenting on a headline and not a story.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 09:20 pm
@roger,
Tell me how you agree with oralloy, please.
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 09:30 pm
@edgarblythe,
The reporter asked him about the murder of Gaddafi in Libya and asked him who was responsible. He said the American people because they allowed their government to do it. Is he under the impression that there was a vote on that particular war, I wonder? Hmmm...maybe he's the one that's not paying attention?
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 09:54 pm
@ossobuco,
I agree with him that the possibilities he lists below are much more plausible than the expressed idea that Obama would support an attack on Iran to win reelection. I would believe the same if we had a Republican President in the same situation, including facing an election.

I can't be more clear.

oralloy wrote:

If so, no. Obama might decide to bomb Iran, but the reason will not be to get Jewish votes.



If Obama decides to bomb Iran, it will be for one of these reasons:

a) He decides that bombing Iran is a better option than crushing them with sanctions.

b) He believes the bombing is inevitable due to Israeli plans to do it. And if it has to be done, the US might as well make sure it is done thoroughly.

c) Israel bombs Iran, and then Iran's subsequent tantrum crosses some of our red lines and we decide to retaliate.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 10:04 pm
@oralloy,
Once again, no sources. It's just the bit of sperm that you were unable to swallow, Oralboy. The U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey blows your little fantasies out of the water. Go back to PacMan and sucking down your daily nourishment.

ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 10:05 pm
@roger,
Why would he do any of that? I know you said, but all of that is fanciful.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 10:10 pm
@ossobuco,
I don't know if he would do any of that, let alone why. I am only suggesting the the three possibilities suggested by oraloy seem much more plausible/likely than that he would launch an attack because he thought it would win an election.

Do you disagree?
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Mar, 2012 10:21 pm
@roger,
I disagree that Obama would just somehow decide to bomb iran - christ, I hope not, he seems more sane - so I don't take oralloy's premise, 1, 2, 3 or whatever.
 

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