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Iran - What Nuclear Weapons Program?

 
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Mar, 2012 02:11 pm
I just read an article that clarifies Obama's stance. He said we would attack if Iran went ahead and produced an atom bomb. But the article notes that both the US and Israel intelligence say Iran has not tried to build one. That gives lots of room to look for a non war solution.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Mar, 2012 02:22 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
Thankfully America is a place where the civilians are in charge, and the military answers to the civilians.


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Yeah right, Oralboy. That's why you dumb shits keep paying these huge sums to a select few to "protect" you from nonexistent boogeymen.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Mar, 2012 09:17 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
Weapons or not, Bush (I mean Obama) is committed to make Iran back down or else get attacked. I suppose he asked Israel to back off, to avoid the kind of retaliation Israel would face, a kind of retaliation Iran could not inflict on the US. Something like that. Head 'em up. Move 'em out. Latest season of the never-ending war.


The only sort of retaliation that Iran could inflict on Israel would be firing ballistic missiles at them (like Iraq did in 1991), and ordering Hizballah to attack northern Israel.

Neither are something to be trivialized, of course. Innocent Israelis would be killed.

But it would not be the sort of thing that would be a truly dire threat to Israel.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Mar, 2012 09:20 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Iran would be foolish to continue any nuke weapon program; it's a lose-lose for them whether they develop or plan to use them. That's unless, they don't mind being wiped off the face of the planet.


Unfortunately, Iran is a foolish country, so we have to deal with their folly.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Mar, 2012 09:31 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
I just read an article that clarifies Obama's stance. He said we would attack if Iran went ahead and produced an atom bomb. But the article notes that both the US and Israel intelligence say Iran has not tried to build one.


"Not currently trying to build one" is being used with a particularly narrow definition. The definition only includes the production of nuclear weapons components and the assembly of them into a working device.

While it is true that Iran is not at the moment doing that, they are in fact creating all the necessary infrastructure to do it in the future.


It would be highly advisable to do the bombing before Iran starts their plutonium production reactor, by the way.

If you thought Fukushima and Chernobyl were bad, wait until you see what happens to an operating reactor when all the safety and control systems are blown into shrapnel and all the engineers and technicians are lying dead.

I suspect that India might grumble a bit if they had to evacuate and abandon the northern half of their country.....




edgarblythe wrote:
That gives lots of room to look for a non war solution.


It is pretty unlikely that any will be found. All that is left to do is wait for the bombs to start dropping.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Mar, 2012 11:16 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
Unfortunately, Iran is a foolish country, so we have to deal with their folly.


You want foolish, wanton disregard for the lives of innocents, a measure of theft that makes Bernie Madoff look like an altar boy, look inward, Oralboy.

Iran hasn't caused the deaths of some 6 to 9 million people since the end of WWII.

Iran hasn't invaded the US and overthrown a "democratically" elected government.

Iran doesn't sit right offshore the US provoking all manner of trouble and mayhem.

Iran hasn't supplied a neighbor with chemical weapons to use on the US.

The poor of the world have had to live, actually, mostly die due to the extreme folly of the greatest terrorist nation/biggest thief on the planet, the good ole US of A.

Iran hasn't set up torture chambers for US citizens.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Mar, 2012 01:04 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
Iran hasn't caused the deaths of some 6 to 9 million people since the end of WWII.


Neither has the US.



JTT wrote:
Iran hasn't invaded the US and overthrown a "democratically" elected government.


No, Iran just blames the US for the fact that the Iranians overthrew their own government (admittedly we did help them do it, but we didn't make them do it).



JTT wrote:
Iran doesn't sit right offshore the US provoking all manner of trouble and mayhem.


Iran always causes tons of trouble and mayhem, including a recent assassination plot on US soil.

The US on the other hand causes no trouble and mayhem. We just stamp it out where others cause it.



JTT wrote:
Iran hasn't supplied a neighbor with chemical weapons to use on the US.


The US did not supply Iraq with chemical weapons. Iraq brewed their own chemical weapons, from precursors that were sold to them by European corporations.



JTT wrote:
The poor of the world have had to live, actually, mostly die due to the extreme folly of the greatest terrorist nation/biggest thief on the planet, the good ole US of A.


The charge that we're a thief is pretty silly.

The charge that we're terrorists is outright false. The US has not targeted civilians in the past hundred years.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Mar, 2012 03:25 pm
@oralloy,
Everything that issues from your mouth is a lie, Oralboy. One giant gush of Uncle Sam's semen, you simply regurgitate the propaganda.

Quote:

The CIA as a Terrorist Organization
By Peter Meyer

CIA operations follow the same recurring script. First, American business interests abroad are threatened by a popular or democratically elected leader. The people support their leader because he intends to conduct land reform, strengthen unions, redistribute wealth, nationalize foreign-owned industry, and regulate business to protect workers, consumers and the environment.
So, on behalf of American business, and often with their help, the CIA mobilizes the opposition. First it identifies right-wing groups within the country (usually the military), and offers them a deal: "We'll put you in power if you maintain a favorable business climate for us." The Agency then hires, trains and works with them to overthrow the existing government (usually a democracy). It uses every trick in the book: propaganda, stuffed ballot boxes, purchased elections, extortion, blackmail, sexual intrigue, false stories about opponents in the local media, infiltration and disruption of opposing political parties, kidnapping, beating, torture, intimidation, economic sabotage, death squads and even assassination.

These efforts culminate in a military coup, which installs a right-wing dictator. The CIA trains the dictator's security apparatus to crack down on the traditional enemies of big business, using interrogation, torture and murder. The victims are said to be "communists" [or these days "terrorists"] but almost always they are just peasants, liberals, moderates, labor union leaders, political opponents and advocates of free speech and democracy. Widespread human rights abuses follow.

...

That the CIA is a terrorist organization is clear from its record of terrorist activities (sometimes called "counterinsurgency" or "low intensity conflict"). Here are just a few examples:

During the Vietnam war the CIA conducted Operation Phoenix, an assassination program. The goal was not only to eliminate those Vietnamese who might oppose the U.S. (which in practice meant most of the population of Vietnam) but also to terrorize the entire population of South Vietnam and to suppress opposition to the occupying U.S. forces. Over 20,000 Vietnamese were murdered, often at random.
The CIA also recruited a mercenary army in Vietnam (financed by profits from the CIA's heroin smuggling), particularly from among the Hmong villagers, which was used to terrorize the civilian population and to prevent them from assisting the Viet Cong.
The CIA organized and financed (with the profits from its cocaine smuggling) the activities of the Contras in Nicaragua, who murdered tens of thousands of civilians, and tried to disrupt the economy, in an attempt to destabilize the legitimate Sandinista government. (For this the U.S. was condemned in the World Court for engaging in international terrorism, and it rejected a U.N. security council resolution calling upon it to observe international law.)
The CIA planned and organized the military coup d'etat in 1973 in Chile which overthrew the legitimately elected government of Salvador Allende (because he would not implement economic policies designed in Washington to favor American corporations doing business in Chile) and brought to power the regime of General Augusto Pinochet; this regime abducted, tortured and killed thousands of Chilean citizens in an attempt to suppress opposition.

The CIA organized and supported the Turkish government's persecution of its Kurdish minority during the 1990s, resulting in tens of thousands of deaths and millions of refuges; the aim being the suppression of Kurdish culture and the elimination of Kurdish demands for a separate state.
The September 11th attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon are widely regarded as terrorist acts. There is evidence of CIA involvement. See Michael Ruppert's Suppressed Details of Criminal Insider Trading Lead Directly into the CIA's Highest Ranks.
Further examples could very easily be given (and may be found documented in the many books, magazine articles and web pages about the CIA). Much relevant information will be found in Ralph McGehee's CIA Support of Death Squads, which gives details about the CIA's terrorist activities in over forty countries.

http://www.serendipity.li/cia/cia_terr.html
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Mar, 2012 05:40 pm
@edgarblythe,
Why is Iran reportedly manufacturing Uranium Deuteride? That **** has but one use. I started out clear of any persuasion, but since Israeli intelligence hs reported that Iran passed the 20% enriched U from UF6 and now the manufacture of the Uranium Deuteride, I am concerned that their path is NOT a friendly one.

They must be mad to continue this road, especially since Israel has a one nation imposed nuclear_Free zone policy.

I see a war on the horizon unless the Iranian people overthrow their govt
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Mar, 2012 06:00 pm
@farmerman,
It's madness for a country to seek to defend itself from the combined evil that is the US/Israel?

Quote:
I started out clear of any persuasion,


Yeah right, Farmer. You, an ardent defender of war criminals/terrorism. Pull the other one.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Mar, 2012 08:18 pm
@farmerman,
Could be, but it's also possible that if the Iranian people overthrow the government, it won't be because a bomb is under developement. Whether they want the bomb or not, they might also not want outsiders dictating what they can and cannot do within their own country.

That's a possibility: not a prediction.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Mar, 2012 08:33 pm
@roger,
Quote:
Whether they want the bomb or not, they might also not want outsiders dictating what they can and cannot do within their own country.


Good point, Roger. It's amazing, isn't it, how so many Americans just can't grasp that basic notion?
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Mar, 2012 08:51 pm
Do we know Israel is truthful?
Iran doesn't have much of a track record for fighting outside its own borders, does it?
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Mar, 2012 09:18 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
Everything that issues from your mouth is a lie, Oralboy.


Your childish namecalling is a poor coverup for your inability to show a single time I've ever lied.



Quote:
The CIA as a Terrorist Organization


Nope. The US (which the CIA is part of) has not targeted civilians in the past hundred years (a period which covers the CIA's entire existence).



Quote:
CIA operations follow the same recurring script. First, American business interests abroad are threatened by a popular or democratically elected leader. The people support their leader because he intends to conduct land reform, strengthen unions, redistribute wealth, nationalize foreign-owned industry, and regulate business to protect workers, consumers and the environment.


In my opinion, it is legitimate to eradicate countries that nationalize foreign-owned industry.



Quote:
financed by profits from the CIA's heroin smuggling
Quote:
financed (with the profits from its cocaine smuggling)


The CIA has done nothing of the sort.



Quote:
The September 11th attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon are widely regarded as terrorist acts. There is evidence of CIA involvement.


You should be ashamed of yourself for posting such a disgusting article.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Mar, 2012 09:26 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Why is Iran reportedly manufacturing Uranium Deuteride? That **** has but one use. I started out clear of any persuasion, but since Israeli intelligence hs reported that Iran passed the 20% enriched U from UF6 and now the manufacture of the Uranium Deuteride, I am concerned that their path is NOT a friendly one.


Do you mean lithium deuteride?

Anyway, Iran's Parchin facility leaves little doubt. Before Saddam Hussein was toppled, Iran was conducting tests of implosion assemblies on spheres of tungsten and depleted uranium at Parchin. And now they are completely blocking all IAEA inspectors from getting anywhere near Parchin.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Mar, 2012 09:32 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
It's madness for a country to seek to defend itself from the combined evil that is the US/Israel?


The US and Israel are the good guys.

What you're proposing is akin to bank robbers seeking to defend themselves from police officers.



JTT wrote:
Yeah right, Farmer. You, an ardent defender of war criminals/terrorism.


Sheesh. I'm pretty sure that's one the last things he'd be an ardent defender of.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Mar, 2012 09:33 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:
Could be, but it's also possible that if the Iranian people overthrow the government, it won't be because a bomb is under developement. Whether they want the bomb or not, they might also not want outsiders dictating what they can and cannot do within their own country.


If the sanctions route is ultimately favored over bombing, the Iranian people might decide that they were tired of being walled off from the entire world due to the crimes of their government.

That said, looks like it's going to be bombing instead of sanctions, so.....
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Mar, 2012 09:34 pm
@oralloy,
The facts, which you ignore with a ferocity of the delusionally insane, show that you are a liar, a monumental liar.

John Stockwell, Ralph McGeehee, and a number of other honest Americans show clearly just what a liar you are, Oralboy.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Mar, 2012 09:35 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
roger wrote:
Whether they want the bomb or not, they might also not want outsiders dictating what they can and cannot do within their own country.


Good point, Roger. It's amazing, isn't it, how so many Americans just can't grasp that basic notion?


If the Iranians don't like the idea of following international law, they'll just have to accept being bombed.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Mar, 2012 09:37 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
Do we know Israel is truthful?


We know that Iran's nuclear program is dedicated to those specific technologies that would allow them to build nuclear weapons, with only token elements of a civilian power program.

We know that Iran has cloaked their nuclear program in secrecy. All nuclear weapons programs have always been cloaked in secrecy, while all civilian power programs have always been open and transparent.

And we know that Iran refuses to let the IAEA inspect at least one of their key nuclear sites (Parchin).



edgarblythe wrote:
Iran doesn't have much of a track record for fighting outside its own borders, does it?


As a matter of fact, it does. And it is a track record that includes the massacre of hundreds of Americans.
0 Replies
 
 

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