Iran - What Nuclear Weapons Program?

@JTT,

JTT wrote:

Once again, no sources. It's just the bit of sperm that you were unable to swallow, Oralboy. The U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey blows your little fantasies out of the water. Go back to PacMan and sucking down your daily nourishment.

Your namecalling is as unfortunate as ever.

And stop lying about me. I don't play PacMan. I don't play wargames. And PacMan is not a wargame.

If you think you can cite any part of the Strategic Bombing Survey that contradicts me, feel free to do so. (But please do it without name-calling or lying about me.)

0 Replies

@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

roger wrote:
I agree with him that the possibilities he lists below are much more plausible than the expressed idea that Obama would support an attack on Iran to win reelection. I would believe the same if we had a Republican President in the same situation, including facing an election.

I can't be more clear.

oralloy wrote:
If so, no. Obama might decide to bomb Iran, but the reason will not be to get Jewish votes.

If Obama decides to bomb Iran, it will be for one of these reasons:

a) He decides that bombing Iran is a better option than crushing them with sanctions.

b) He believes the bombing is inevitable due to Israeli plans to do it. And if it has to be done, the US might as well make sure it is done thoroughly.

c) Israel bombs Iran, and then Iran's subsequent tantrum crosses some of our red lines and we decide to retaliate.

Why would he do any of that?

Why would Obama:

a) Decide that bombing was a better option than crushing Iran with sanctions?

Perhaps Obama would reach the conclusion that for some reason sanctions are not going to work.

b) Decide that since Israel is going to do it anyway, the bombing might as well be done as thoroughly as possible?

Because whatever course is chosen to stop Iran, it had best be done properly. If bombing ends up being the way it has to be done, everyone will be better off with it being done right.

c) Bomb Iran for crossing some of our red lines?

Because our red lines are there for a reason, and we penalize countries that cross them.

ossobuco wrote:

all of that is fanciful.

Not really. Obama is resolved to stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons, and he has not taken any conventional military options off the table.

0 Replies

@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

I disagree that Obama would just somehow decide to bomb iran - christ, I hope not, he seems more sane - so I don't take oralloy's premise, 1, 2, 3 or whatever.

None of my three reasons involved him "just deciding to do it" as if there were no good reason to do so.

0 Replies

There is no good reason to do so.

1 Reply

@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

There is no good reason to do so.

The need to stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons is a good reason.

Now, there is an argument to be made that overwhelming sanctions are the best way to do that. But that doesn't mean there isn't also an argument to be made that bombing is the way to go. (Really, it's a situation where there are no good choices, and all the bad choices have their own unique downsides.)

0 Replies

Or Israel could wake up to the fact that they'd beter get their ass in gear and actually start working on what they need to do to work out how to live in peace with their neighbors, rather than threatening to blow them back to the stone age any time they disagre with them.

1 Reply

Fortunately Israelis seem to be more sensible on the subject than oralloy. New poll out today shows 32% of Israelis oppose bombing Iran under any circumstances, and 43% say airstrikes should only be considered if America will help. Which is unlikely.
And there is doublt cast on whether in fact Israel could take out Iran's hardened and dispersed facilities anyway.

1 Reply

@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

Or Israel could wake up to the fact that they'd beter get their ass in gear and actually start working on what they need to do to work out how to live in peace with their neighbors, rather than threatening to blow them back to the stone age any time they disagre with them.

There is nothing that Israel can do to live in peace with their neighbors. Blowing them up is the only thing that works, and there is nothing that Israel can do to change that.

0 Replies

@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

Fortunately Israelis seem to be more sensible on the subject than oralloy.

All I've done is point out the unvarnished truth. What isn't sensible about that?

MontereyJack wrote:

New poll out today shows 32% of Israelis oppose bombing Iran under any circumstances, and 43% say airstrikes should only be considered if America will help. Which is unlikely.

But what does Netanyahu think should be done?

MontereyJack wrote:

And there is doublt cast on whether in fact Israel could take out Iran's hardened and dispersed facilities anyway.

America has more bombs, and bigger bombs, and could clearly do a more thorough job of wiping out Iran's nuclear program.

But there is zero question that Israel is capable of destroying Iran's main nuclear sites.

Israel has the refueling tankers they'd need to get to Iran. And Obama gave Israel a supply of 5000-pound bunker busters that are capable of penetrating Iran's crude bunkers.

0 Replies

Others disagree with you.

1 Reply

oralloy says :

Quote:

There is nothing that Israel can do to live in peace with their neighbors

Israel has spent sixty years refusing to deal with the things it knows it has to do to live in peace.

2 Replies

@MontereyJack,

Funny . . . Israel has lived in peace with Egypt for more than 30 years, and with Jordan for about the same length of time--longer in Jordan's case, in fact. I suspect that Oralloy wants to see war because of his partisan, ideological stance.

1 Reply

Yeah, but not with the Palestinians, and they are who the rest of the Middle East (and for that matter most of the factions in Egypt now that things are in flux there) are concerned about. I agre about oralloy though, a Mideast chicken hawk.

2 Replies

@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

Others disagree with you.

Unlikely. If there were any sort of substantial disagreement, those mystery people would trouble themselves to point out something I've said, and specify why they believe that it is wrong.

0 Replies

@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

oralloy wrote:
There is nothing that Israel can do to live in peace with their neighbors

Israel has spent sixty years refusing to deal with the things it knows it has to do to live in peace.

There is nothing to be done. Israel's neighbors refuse to make peace, and the only thing Israel can do is be ready to defend themselves.

0 Replies

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Funny . . . Israel has lived in peace with Egypt for more than 30 years, and with Jordan for about the same length of time--longer in Jordan's case, in fact.

Jordan is an exception to the behavior of Israel's other neighbors. If they were all like Jordan, the region would have achieved peace long ago.

As for Egypt, I expect that Israel will soon have to recapture the Sinai. I imagine they will rebuild their old settlements there.

1 Reply

@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

Yeah, but not with the Palestinians, and they are who the rest of the Middle East (and for that matter most of the factions in Egypt now that things are in flux there) are concerned about.

Hardly Israel's fault that the Palestinians refuse to make peace.

MontereyJack wrote:

I agre about oralloy though, a Mideast chicken hawk.

"Chicken Hawk" is a term usually used by people who feel only those who serve in the military should have a say in national policy. That is a classic sign of Fascism.

Thankfully America is a place where the civilians are in charge, and the military answers to the civilians.

0 Replies

@oralloy,

No, Israel will not "have to" do anything of the kind. Once again, you don't think, you spout ideology.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

No, Israel will not "have to" do anything of the kind. Once again, you don't think, you spout ideology.

Egypt is clearly a troublemaker. It is only a matter of time before they start another war with Israel.

I expect that such a war will end up with Israel back in control of the Sinai and rebuilding their old settlements there.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

No such thing is clear about Egypt. You'd like to think that they'll provide a justification for zionist expansion, but once again, that's because you've drunk the ideological koolaid, and not because you have good reason to make the claim.

1 Reply

Iran - What Nuclear Weapons Program?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know