No Freedom in Iran

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They execute people for protesting against the government.

Quote:

Iran protester reportedly sentenced to death

Tehran, Iran (CNN) -- An Iranian court has sentenced one person to death and eight others to prison for their parts in anti-government demonstrations in December, the semi-official Fars news agency reported Tuesday.

The nine defendants were tried last week over their roles in protests during the Shiite Muslim holy period of Ashura, Fars said, quoting the Tehran judiciary's public relations office.

There now are 10 people sentenced to death and awaiting appeal in connection with the protests.

Two men already have been executed for participating in anti-government demonstrations, but a lawyer for one of them said her client was already in jail when the protests began.

The nine people tried last week were convicted of conspiracy against the government and "waging war against God," an extremely serious charge that some Iranian lawmakers have pushed to carry an automatic death penalty. All can appeal their sentences, Fars reported.

Sentences of imprisonment and fines against 35 others have been upheld on appeal, the Iranian Students News Agency said. They were convicted of attacking security personnel, arson and damage to private and public property, and other charges.

News of the latest sentences came during what is normally a week of celebrations in Iran, marking the anniversary of the overthrow of the monarchy on February 11, 1979.

Anti-government demonstrations began after the disputed June 12 presidential vote, which re-elected President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad over main opposition candidate Mir Hossein Moussavi.

A fresh round of protests that began in late December marked the deadliest clashes since the initial protests in the summer.

At least seven people were killed and hundreds were arrested, witnesses said, as they took to the streets on Ashura, December 27.

The Iranian government has denied that its security forces killed anyone and has blamed reformists for the violence.
Police arrested 4,000 people in the post-election crackdown.

In January, authorities hanged Mohammed Reza Ali Zamani, 37, and Arash Rahmanipour, 20, who had been convicted of being enemies of God and plotting to topple the Islamic regime.

The executions drew international condemnation.

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/02/09/iran.protests/index.html?hpt=T2

I'll wait for all the liberals and nut cases to rush in to say that America is just as bad.

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[+4] - Robert Gentel - 02/09/2010[quote="Brandon9000"]I'll wait for all the liberals and nut cases to rush in to say that America is just as bad.[/quote] This is an odd strawman. Have you actually encountered such...

@Brandon9000,

But interfering with their affairs makes it worse and only prolong the power of the religious fanatics which GWB did. Basically I don't have a good solution but would be against a bad solution such as what GWB did.

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@Brandon9000,

And the news here is...?

And your point is...?

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@Merry Andrew,

this just in

http://images.chron.com/blogs/aboutchron/archives/dewey_defeats_truman1.jpg

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@djjd62,

Damn! How'd I miss that? Prob'ly wasn't watching Fox News.

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@Brandon9000,

Quote:

I'll wait for all the liberals and nut cases to rush in to say that America is just as bad.

I think America was bad when it set up "free speech zones". Did you like Bush's "free speech zones", Brandon? I like America much better now that we have a president who doesn't feel the need for "free speech zones".

So if liberals complain about their government you call them "nut cases", but if conservatives complain what do you call them? "Tea baggers"? Fox News groupies? Does anyone whine with more hateful comments about our government than people like Rush, Coulter, and Beck?

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I'm really disappointed in you Brandon. Such a clumsy effort to stir up partisan rhetoric....Really!

So beneath you.

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@Brandon9000,

Brandon9000 wrote:

I'll wait for all the liberals and nut cases to rush in to say that America is just as bad.

This is an odd strawman. Have you actually encountered such liberals (who think the US is as bad as Iran when it comes to political freedom) or are you just tossing in a throwaway insult at liberals?

The political freedoms in Iran are shameful, but shoehorning in a dig at the US liberals seems incongruous to this. Liberals and conservatives from freer countries around the world have been hoping and cheering for more freedom for Iranians. I really don't get how you see this in the context of US partisanship at all.

1 Reply

@Green Witch,

Arg, don't fall for that bait! Iran's political crisis just isn't about American partisanship. Both parties should be, and are, united in their support for more political freedom for Iranians. If anything the only differences lie in how best to go about it.

1 Reply

@Robert Gentel,

Yes, you're right. The cheese is stale and not worth the effort.

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@Merry Andrew,

Merry Andrew wrote:

And the news here is...?

And your point is...?

My point is that we discuss the news of the day here, and I have been watching the Iran situation in the news. Is this not sufficiently interesting for you?

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@Green Witch,

Green Witch wrote:

Quote:
I'll wait for all the liberals and nut cases to rush in to say that America is just as bad.

I think America was bad when it set up "free speech zones". Did you like Bush's "free speech zones", Brandon? I like America much better now that we have a president who doesn't feel the need for "free speech zones".

So if liberals complain about their government you call them "nut cases", but if conservatives complain what do you call them? "Tea baggers"? Fox News groupies? Does anyone whine with more hateful comments about our government than people like Rush, Coulter, and Beck?

Setting up free speech zones, which existed prior to Bush, isn't a valid interpretation of the First Amendment, but it's preposterous to compare it to being executed for protesting. Furthermore, I didn't call liberals "nut cases," I said "liberals and nut cases." Having a reading problem? Finally, I never criticized anyone for the mere act of protesting against the government, which is obviously at the core of what America stands for, as anyone could tell from a casual reading of the Declaration if Independence. I criticized people who are very, very eager and happy to say bad things about America, even when the criticisms are ludicrous (e.g. saying that violations of rights in America are as bad as Iran) or unrelated to the topic being discussed.

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@panzade,

panzade wrote:

I'm really disappointed in you Brandon. Such a clumsy effort to stir up partisan rhetoric....Really!

So beneath you.

Baloney. How is criticizing people for what the actually do here on this board beneath me?

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@Robert Gentel,

Robert Gentel wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
I'll wait for all the liberals and nut cases to rush in to say that America is just as bad.

This is an odd strawman. Have you actually encountered such liberals (who think the US is as bad as Iran when it comes to political freedom) or are you just tossing in a throwaway insult at liberals?

The political freedoms in Iran are shameful, but shoehorning in a dig at the US liberals seems incongruous to this. Liberals and conservatives from freer countries around the world have been hoping and cheering for more freedom for Iranians. I really don't get how you see this in the context of US partisanship at all.

It would only be a strawman if I were putting words in peoples' mouths which they didn't say. Criticizing people for what they do say is....what was that word?...Oh, yes, valid. To answer your question, I have encountered numerous liberals who are eager to find something bad they can say about the US, like, for example blaming us for news events in which we play no part whatever, or responding to something a hundred times as bad as anything that would happen here by saying that we are just as bad. Finally, if liberals have been, as you suggest, hoping and cheering for more freedom for Iranians, why are there so few posts on this board about the nearly daily horrors coming out of Iran? People there are actually being executed for protesting against the government, yet it is barely even mentioned here. The fair statement about the reation on this board to Iran's actions is that the people here couldn't care less. There are only a scattering of posts about it. If they were interested, someone might have responded to this thread with an actual comment about Iran.

1 Reply

@Brandon9000,

Brandon9000 wrote:

It would only be a strawman if I were putting words in peoples' mouths which they didn't say.

But that's just it, when you posted nobody had said anything about it. And I seriously don't think anyone here thinks the US political freedoms are worse than that of Iran. This is a strawman you added just to dig at liberals.

Even if we consider all of a2k's history I don't think you can show us where anyone on a2k has said that the US has less political freedom than Iran.

Quote:

Criticizing people for what they do say is....what was that word?...Oh, yes, valid. To answer your question, I have encountered numerous liberals who are eager to find something bad they can say about the US, like, for example blaming us for news events in which we play no part whatever, or responding to something a hundred times as bad as anything that would happen here by saying that we are just as bad.

So in other words, not what they actually say but just some vague anti-Americanism you allege them to have. You may disagree but this really does smack of a strawman to me. None of your interlocutors hold this position, but you valiantly knock it to the ground anyway. That's nice, but where are these people you are arguing against other than in your head?

Quote:

Finally, if liberals have been, as you suggest, hoping and cheering for more freedom for Iranians, why are there so few posts on this board about the nearly daily horrors coming out of Iran?

Because there is not necessarily correlation between wanting more freedom for Iranians and able2know forum activity. There are a lot of things people here care deeply about but don't necessarily post in large volume about.

Quote:

People there are actually being executed for protesting against the government, yet it is barely even mentioned here. The fair statement about the reation on this board to Iran's actions is that the people here couldn't care less. There are only a scattering of posts about it. If they were interested, someone might have responded to this thread with an actual comment about Iran.

Hey I'm all for more interest in what's going on in Iran (in my circles interest is very high and it's like the clause celebré for liberals in the last year it seems, with the twitter users putting on their green avatars and all) but you yourself aren't talking about Iran here either, you made this thread about US partisan strawmen, not Iran. If you wanted responses about Iran why did you put in US political troll bait?

If you think you are countering an actual position instead of knocking down a straw man then show us who is holding this position that you are arguing against.

1 Reply

@Robert Gentel,

Robert Gentel wrote:

...If you think you are countering an actual position instead of knocking down a straw man then show us who is holding this position that you are arguing against.

Okay, I will. My position is that numerous liberals seem very, very eager to interject bad things about America, and claim its abuses are similar in magnitude to foreign abuses which are clearly worse. I don't mean to single any one individual out, but, for instance, here:

http://able2know.org/topic/50999-5

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:
The fact that you can't seem to make a moral distinction between the actions of the US, and the actions of the islamo-terrorists, is evident, ... but it doesn't mean there isn't one.

Well? Why don't you point out for us what the distinction is?

In real terms, we've killed many, many, many more innocents then they have. Many more.

I'm sure you will respond with 'purposes, intentions, reasoning' type of answer; but that's bullshit, it's all a POV. The dead are still dead.

Cycloptichorn

When foreign abuses, e.g. Russia, China, Iran, terrorist groups, etc. are mentioned, liberals will often feel compelled to interject, often irrelevantly, that the US is no better. I've seen posts in newspaper forums where, in the middle of a discussion about the Somali pirates, people will irrelevantly throw in some smear about the US. This type of thing is all over the place.

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No Freedom in Iran

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