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Iran - What Nuclear Weapons Program?

 
 
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Sat 26 Nov, 2011 10:57 pm
I haven't suggested an attack on or invasion opf Iran, so you guys are just beating a straw man. Instead I suggested the repeated denials that Iran may be working to develop a nuclear weapon are implausible. If you are opposed to any intervention in Iran that is ceartainly your perogative, however to rationalize that position on the shaky proposition that they are surely not trying to develop a bomb is both foolish and unnecessary.

Of course it is easy to understand that the regime in Iran might have its own reasons to want nuclear weapons. That doesn't however mean that such an outcome is either in our interests or good for the peace of the region. Iran's neighbors in the Gulf region have plenty of reason to be concerned about their neurotic and zealous neighbor, as do most of the Iranian people do about the tyranny that rules them so oppressively.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2011 06:07 am
@edgarblythe,
That NYT article was incorrect about several things, including the fact that weve got 4, not one, enrichment plant, and an experimental laser test facility .

If you feel that you dont wanna be snookered like we were with the Iraqi WMD facilities. Irans nuke aspirations are a bit different, even the IAE guys have located feed stock (HF6) and two centrifuge and one gas effusion, enrichment sites (one, as georgeob said) was in a hardened facility
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2011 09:28 am

Annals of National Security
Iran and the BombHow real is the nuclear threat?
by Seymour M. Hersh
June 6, 2011 .
There is no conclusive evidence that Iran has tried to build a bomb since 2003.
Iran actively trying to develop nuclear weapons? Members of the Obama Administration often talk as if this were a foregone conclusion, as did their predecessors under George W. Bush. There is a large body of evidence, however, including some of America’s most highly classified intelligence assessments, suggesting that the United States could be in danger of repeating a mistake similar to the one made with Saddam Hussein’s Iraq eight years ago––allowing anxieties about the policies of a tyrannical regime to distort our estimations of the state’s military capacities and intentions. The two most recent National Intelligence Estimates (N.I.E.s) on Iranian nuclear progress, representing the best judgment of the senior officers from all the major American intelligence agencies, have stated that there is no conclusive evidence that Iran has made any effort to build the bomb since 2003.

Despite years of covert operations inside Iran, extensive satellite imagery, and the recruitment of many Iranian intelligence assets, the United States and its allies, including Israel, have been unable to find irrefutable evidence of an ongoing hidden nuclear-weapons program in Iran, according to intelligence and diplomatic officials here and abroad. One American defense consultant told me that as yet there is “no smoking calutron,” although, like many Western government officials, he is convinced that Iran is intent on becoming a nuclear state sometime in the future.

The general anxiety about the Iranian regime is firmly grounded. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has repeatedly questioned the Holocaust and expressed a desire to see the state of Israel eliminated, and he has defied the 2006 United Nations resolution calling on Iran to suspend its nuclear-enrichment program. Tehran is also active in arming Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Gaza. Iran is heavily invested in nuclear technology, and has a power plant ready to go on line in the port city of Bushehr, with a second in the planning stage. In the past four years, it has tripled the number of centrifuges in operation at its main enrichment facility at Natanz, which is buried deep underground. On the other hand, the Iranian enrichment program is being monitored by the International Atomic Energy Agency, and Natanz and all Iran’s major declared nuclear installations are under extensive video surveillance. I.A.E.A. inspectors have expressed frustration with Iran’s level of coöperation and cited an increase in production of uranium, but they have been unable to find any evidence that enriched uranium has been diverted to an illicit weapons program.

National Intelligence Estimates, whose preparation is the responsibility of the Director of National Intelligence, Lieutenant General James Clapper, of the Air Force, are especially sensitive, because the analysts who prepare them have access to top-secret communications intercepts as well as the testimony of foreign scientists and intelligence officials, among others, who have been enlisted by the C.I.A. and its military counterpart, the Defense Intelligence Agency. In mid-February, Clapper’s office provided the House and Senate intelligence committees with an update to the N.I.E. on the Iranian nuclear-weapons program. The previous assessment, issued in 2007, created consternation and anger inside the Bush Administration and in Congress by concluding, “with high confidence,” that Iran had halted a nascent nuclear-weapons program in 2003. That estimate added, “We do not know whether it currently intends to develop nuclear weapons.” The Bush White House had insisted that a summary of the 2007 N.I.E. be made public––an unprecedented move––but then President Bush and Vice-President Dick Cheney quickly questioned its conclusions. Peter Hoekstra, a Republican from Michigan who had been chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, characterized the N.I.E. as “a piece of trash.”


from the issuecartoon banke-mail this.The public dispute over the 2007 N.I.E. led to bitter infighting within the Obama Administration and the intelligence community over this year’s N.I.E. update—a discrepancy between the available intelligence and what many in the White House and Congress believed to be true. Much of the debate, which delayed the issuing of the N.I.E. for more than four months, centered on the Defense Intelligence Agency’s astonishing assessment that Iran’s earlier nuclear-weapons research had been targeted at its old regional enemy, Iraq, and not at Israel, the United States, or Western Europe. One retired senior intelligence official told me that the D.I.A. analysts had determined that Iran “does not have an ongoing weapons program, and all of the available intelligence shows that the program, when it did exist, was aimed at Iraq. The Iranians thought Iraq was developing a bomb.” The Iranian nuclear-weapons program evidently came to an end following the American-led invasion of Iraq, in early 2003, and the futile hunt for the Iraqi W.M.D. arsenal. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu insists that Iran, like Libya, halted its nuclear program in 2003 because it feared military action. “The more Iran believes that all options are on the table, the less the chance of confrontation,” Netanyahu told a joint session of Congress last week.

The D.I.A. analysts understood that the 2011 assessment would be politically explosive. “If Iran is not a nuclear threat, then the Israelis have no reason to threaten imminent military action,” the retired senior intelligence official said. “The guys working on this are good analysts, and their bosses are backing them up.”

The internal debate over the Iran assessment was alluded to last fall by W. Patrick Lang, a retired Army intelligence officer who served for years as the ranking D.I.A. analyst on the Middle East and contributed to many N.I.E.s. “Do you all know what an N.I.E. is?” Lang said to an audience at the University of Virginia. “The National Intelligence Estimate is the ground truth of the American government hammered out on the anvil of the Lord. . . . Then, once things are approved, people stand up at meetings and wave them and point to them and say, ‘See here, it says here that Saleh’ ”—Ali Abdullah Saleh, the President of Yemen—“ ‘is a fink.’ And then everybody has to agree that Saleh is a fink.”



Read more http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/06/06/110606fa_fact_hersh#ixzz1ev5j1gLp
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2011 05:13 pm
@Setanta,
I totally agree.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2011 05:17 pm
I don't believe Iran is nearly the threat it is made out to be.
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2011 05:34 pm
@edgarblythe,
We must have an enemy, ed.

or we would hafta find a different way to spend all that money...
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2011 05:35 pm
@Rockhead,
I'm tired of endless wars, with no payoff in sight.
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2011 02:54 pm
@edgarblythe,
Yet another explosion near a nuclear facility in Iran today. Another account I read in the UKTelegraph suggested it was an accident while transporting munitions by the military. Hmmmm.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/28/isfahan-explosion-report-iran-nuclear-facilities?newsfeed=true
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2011 03:32 pm
@Irishk,
Sabotage?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2011 04:02 pm
@Irishk,
From what little I know, I doubt the explosion was a nuke weapon. Uranium on its own doesn't "explode."
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2011 04:49 pm
@edgarblythe,
The Iranians deny it was sabotage. The Washington Post has a story today on the explosion that took place two weeks ago, with 'after' pictures of the facility. In that one, too, Iran claims it was an “accident” involving the transport of ammunition.

Washington Post story with images showing the missile site destroyed.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2011 05:50 pm
@georgeob1,
No one said you'd said that, so you're the one erecting a straw man. It may come as a shock to you, but we are allowed to discuss the subject without reference only to the pearls of wisdom you vouchsafe us, O'George.

Furthermore, you trot out another straw man to the effect that 'we" (whoever that we may be) are saying the Persians surely aren't trying to develop nuclear weapons. I didn't say that, i simply pointed out that we don't know, and that i'm not buying any claims about western intelligence sources because i'm not buying any claim that western intelligence services have penetrated Persian security. I strongly suspect they are, but i don't know any more than anyone else does. And i did discuss in detail why they might be doing this. Then EB and i both agreed that there's no reason to assume that they're suicidal.

You'll have to cobble together different straw men, O'George. Those two don't work.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2011 06:21 pm
I don't claim to know definitively whether there exists a nuclear weapons program there. I am amazed that so many think they know all the answers.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2011 07:23 pm
@edgarblythe,
I've an odd perspective, given I'm well on record for hating bombs, all bombs, but especially the big ones.

However, atomic science is science, and no country or countries somehow own it, to my mind.

Atomic arrogance is built on stilts. Peace is better worked in other ways.
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2011 08:04 pm
@edgarblythe,
True. Almost all of the country is criss-crossed with fault-lines, though, and even their own scientists have said it's a bad, bad idea to build nuclear reactor plants because the country is so earthquake prone. This map shows some of the quakes over the years (and centuries lol), a lot of them 'killer' quakes. The last bad one, I think, was in 2003, killing more than 30,000.

Still, if they wanted to develop a weapons program on the down-low, pretending to build reactors is perfect.

http://www.ngdir.ir/earthquake/TEMP/image_634b60ebA5e2aA49b5Ab5aeA872a52a3650a.png
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2011 08:12 pm
@Irishk,
When they were our "friends" there were no acknowledged drawbacks to nuclear plants there.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2011 08:15 pm
@Irishk,
Looks like they're willing to gamble their own safety to work on nuclear weapons; the world community can watch them blow themselves up, or contaminate their country with radiation when the next big one hits their country and damages their uranium plant. I just wonder who they're going to ask for help?
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2011 08:15 pm
@edgarblythe,
It's probably going to work itself out. They seem to be fairly clumsy lol.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2011 08:21 pm
@Irishk,
It's a puzzle within a quagmire within a comedy of errors.
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2011 08:47 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
It's a puzzle within a quagmire within a comedy of errors.

That's a quotable quote! I'm stealing it!
0 Replies
 
 

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