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Explaining Why I Left A2K for Awhile

 
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2011 10:53 pm
@CalamityJane,
You two are talking about differing environments. Not all businesses run quite as you take it, CJ. Or, as always as firefly is positing. They vary.

In our place, when I worked in a firm with several other designers, we made the boss close his door when he wanted to listen to Renata Tebald blasting - while he was designing - when we were doing our various design jobs. I was the one who closed the door. (You'd figure that.) A couple of years later I started to like opera. He on the other hand would never have minded if we had earphones to music.
When a friend and I had our studio in what I call north north, we had similar music muses and sometimes it we let it be quite loud, until the phone rang, and the other one would go turn the music down.

I didn't have a computer at work until I was an owner, and never had employees, only partners. We all just used it or them sensibly, re stuff to research, and playtime when work was slow.

Depends on the place.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2011 01:39 am
@CalamityJane,
Quote:
You like classical music, your co-workers might not and have to listen to yours or vice versa you'd have to listen to rap music from your co-workers. Where does it end?

I've aways had a private office, so my radio never bothered anyone else. But I was at work, and doing work, with that radio on when I was alone in my office.

But I know other people who've listened to music, also classical music, through headphones while they've worked in a cubical. It depends on the kind of work you do, what kind of music you're listening to, and whether the music would distract you from what you're doing--for many people, like me, it enhances their work when they are writing something, and it blocks out other background sounds in an open office environment which might really be distracting. It also depends on the work environment you're in, whether it becomes an issue.
When I was in school, I hated working on something, like a term paper, in a library because it was too quiet--I couldn't think well.Laughing And I don't think I could ever work in a cubical, or open office environment, without listening to music on headphones, because I think the background noises of other people talking, and phones ringing, would drive me crazy and I wouldn't be able to concentrate.Laughing But, that's me. Laughing And I hate having time to kill at work--I prefer to be continuously busy--doing work.Laughing

I also think you and I might be thinking of different types of offices, so we have a different frame of reference.

My mother worked in a university department office, and shared that office with two or three other secretaries. They had a radio news station on all the time in the background. They were generally pretty busy, but, if they didn't have exams or papers to type, or things to file, or copies to make, or students to help, or phones to answer, they did have a little free time, and they'd sit and talk to each other, or look at a newspaper, or read a book, or go on the internet. They never took routine coffee breaks, and most of the time ate lunch at their desks, and even stayed late when they had to, so they were entitled to relax a little when they could.

And the work environment osso was talking about is yet a different kind of situation.

Some offices don't have a continuous flow of work all of the time for every employee.Sometimes you have to wait for whatever you need to do your job--wait for someone to deliver something to you, wait for supplies, wait for customers or clients, wait for someone to get back to you about something, wait for a meeting, etc.

But, if you are talking about the type of office where there is always a pile of work, and absolutely no reason not to be doing that work continuously, then you'd be right in expecting people to be doing that work all the time and nothing else. I'm not really familiar with that kind of environment.

And I'm not familiar with having to deal with the internet use problem, but I can see why it might be necessary to either block personal use altogether or limit it to a specific time-frame--like the duration of a coffee break, and in lieu of an out-of-the-office coffee break.Aren't people entitled to coffee breaks?

But, with Arella Mae, even if she was on the internet too much, shouldn't they first have told her to curb it, or stop it, and waited to see if she did, instead of suddenly mentioning it as a reason for why they were firing her?

OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2011 04:41 am
@Arella Mae,
I don 't know the law of your State, but u can have a case with the federal EEOC.

One of the possibilities is: rather than negotiating for money
to settle your case, negotiate settlement based on re-instatement,
with some protection from getting fired again. GOOD LUCK!





David
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2011 10:15 am
@firefly,
Sure, every work place is as different as people itself. I am looking at it from a standpoint that I have to set an example as I have about 10 employees reporting to me. If I sit there on the internet, read books and newspapers or listen to music, it would entitle employees to do the same. My office has an open door, I never shut myself out, so everyone can see me which I like.

We don't have coffee breaks per se, however we have a kitchen stocked
with drinks, coffee and snacks and they meet there to chat. Lunch is also
provided for all employees and they receive nice benefit packages. It's really a cordial, friendly work environment, but due to excess internet usage of some past employees, we just blocked it and fared better with it.

As I said before, some employees are responsible workers and you can count on them to do their work no matter what the pace is, others do not and since we're all adults, I am not inclined to check up on them on a
constant basis. It's always a give and take situation, and I mostly work
with a young 20 -30 year old staff, it's sometimes difficult to find good
work ethics in that age group.

Yes, you're right, Arella Mae should have had a warning, if she used
the internet against corporate policies.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2011 10:45 am
@Arella Mae,
Arella Mae wrote:

I hope you are right Calamity Jane. Not having unemployment benefits would really not be helpful right now.

I have an appointment at 9:00am with the Labor Attorney. I looked him up on the Internet and he seems to be quite the defender of the underdogs; i.e, AIDS Victims, the Elderly, those discriminated against.

Johnny said Tommy, the attorney we have already seen said, "This is the guy for you." Johnny said Tommy has a great deal of respect for this attorney. Tommy used to be the prosecutor here.

I will let everyone know how it goes tomorrow.



Good luck, Arella. I hope things work out for you.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2011 12:02 pm
Okay, the next step is a hearing with the EEOC. Seems they have to decide whether I have enough evidence to file a suit or not. The lawyer said he has won with less and lost with more. Johnny says to go for it, but I have a thought I'd like to run by all of you.

Money is not my object here. Justice is. I want those two women gone so no one else suffers through this again. I have been told over and over that Philippe, the owner, doesn't want to know about anything negative. I got to thinking. All these other people have lied about everything else. What if they are lying about that? I am thinking of filing a lawsuit again him and his company. What if he doesn't know about any of this? So, I am considering sitting down and writing everything down to him in a letter. I will include the audio recordings I have to support my claims. Perhaps he would do something if he knew what was really happening? Would I be in the right if I did not at least give him the chance to address this?

I will make it very clear to him that I am willing to file the lawsuit if nothing is done. What do you think?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2011 12:14 pm
@Arella Mae,
Wait, you are thinking of filing a suit and paying a lawyer even if you loose??

That is nuts. Not only are you very likely to be out money but also legal action will make it impossible for you to move on, your head and your heart will still be wrapped around this failed employment for months or years to come. You were abused, but seeking vengeance against your abuser is often a losing proposition for you personally. You have been abused in your life before now, one would like to see you at this point better able to resist letting abusers bring you down.

You could sacrifice yourself in the attempt to stick it to your abuser and thus hopefully help others, but by the sounds of it this is not particularly likely to happen.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2011 12:17 pm
@hawkeye10,
Um, where did I say that? Oh wait, I see how you could think that. I should have put the word evidence in there. The lawyer told me he has won cases with less evidence and lost cases with more evidence, making a statement about my claim.

This guy would definitely be the man for the job. I told him I wasn't in it for money, I wanted justice. He said, "I'm (meaning him) in it for the money."
OmSigDAVID
 
  3  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2011 12:19 pm
@Arella Mae,
Follow the advice of your local attorney
and don't spring any surprizes on him (like writing letters).

Be careful to avoid the appearance of extortionate threats (blackmail).
"U fire X and Y, or I will do thus n so."


I have never seen any case settled upon the basis
of getting anyone fired. That is probably what your lawyer hinted at, in saying that.

Your (possibly) attainable goals r re-instatement
or cash compensation.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2011 12:23 pm
@Arella Mae,
If you are only out money if you win then that makes a huge difference, but still you need to decide if you want to sacrifice your mental and emotional health by pursuing this. I always say that the abused have as their first duty themselves, their healing, and that they should only take up the collectives' cause of pursuing the abuser if doing so will help with healing or if they willingly choose to make the sacrifice.
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2011 12:25 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
this post is the needle in your haystack, dave...

good advice there.

Arella, I know this sounds bad, but justice is not a concept. it's something that is purchased in most cases. be it through money or martyrdom.

I think you are being naive about the owner of this successful business, and what he might know or care about.

he has the money to pursue his own justice...

be careful out there.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2011 12:29 pm
@Rockhead,
Quote:
he has the money to pursue his own justice.
And unless the settlement is large the employer is likely too look at the bill as part of the cost of doing business, not as a motivator for change. I have worked for abusive employers before, almost always lawsuits reinforce their belief that employees must be pushed around for the good of the business...lawsuits make them worse employers not better employers.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  6  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2011 12:36 pm
@Arella Mae,
At this point you shouldn't do anything unless your attorney tells you to.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  4  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2011 02:12 pm
@Arella Mae,
Do not do anything that you have not explicitly cleared with your lawyer.

Do not write to the company owner. Do not send the audio recordings. Do not tell anyone other than your counsel about the recordings, but make sure your counsel has copies of the recordings.

Your lawyer would be well within his rights to drop you as a client if you damage his ability to be successful in this case.
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2011 04:03 pm
@Arella Mae,
This is a bad idea on so many levels, but as ehbeth said, consult your lawyer
before you do anything. Emotionally I can understand your reasoning but on a rational level I cannot and would not advice you to do so.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  2  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2011 04:10 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
I am considering sitting down and writing everything down to him in a letter. I will include the audio recordings I have to support my claims.


Why not do this for yourself and the lawyer? Don't send it to anyone else, just do it as preparation for your lawyer, and to get all the facts down on paper with citations to time markers on the audio tapes?

In fact, if you have the time, you might do a written transcription of the tapes for your lawyer. He'll need it eventually, and you can save some legal expenses by doing it yourself rather than him having to pay someone to do it. You're also more familiar with the voices and will probably do a more accurate transcription.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2011 06:39 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

Do not do anything that you have not explicitly cleared with your lawyer.

Do not write to the company owner. Do not send the audio recordings. Do not tell anyone other than your counsel about the recordings, but make sure your counsel has copies of the recordings.
Give your lawyer the ORIGINALS, not copies. Thay r more likely to be audible.

Few such recordings have been audible; a few words, here n there.
ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2011 06:41 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
I think the lawyer should have the originals in the long run - I'm always nervous about handing original documents over too soon.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2011 06:49 pm
I didn't answer right away, Arella, as I'm no legal smart one. My thought was egads, no. I think that would be the last thing you should do. But I didn't post back quickly and yell at you. Better the smarter respond. And they have.
As said by I think all of us, run this by your attorney.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2011 06:57 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
I think the lawyer should have the originals in the long run - I'm always nervous about handing original documents over too soon.
Too many times have I seen exhibits rejected on objection
based on the "best evidence rule" when offered into evidence in an
illegible condition (a copy) and when asked where the ORIGINAL is,
the litigant says that it is "at home for safe keeping" in the middle of the trial
(as if there were something MORE important than the trial itself for whose benefit the evidence is being preserved).

Sometimes, the litigant has been able to race home to get it in the lunch break
or bring it in the next day (if there IS a next day of trial), but not always.





David
 

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