17
   

Schools closed-exotic animals prowl Ohio - Sozobe?

 
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 06:28 am
@msolga,
I've read the thread. That's not the point. The point is that because of a single incident in a single state here, you condemned the entire nation as uncivilized.

But i see that you will continue to attempt to discuss anything but that. What you've said about Australia is not to the point. Silly claims that i'm accusing you of being "anti-US" (which i am not and have not) are not to the point. The point is that you condemned the entire nation. I'm sure you did it thoughtlessly, but you can't own up to it.

So you continue to use personal insults such as that i'm out of my tree, and while whining that i use personal insults. You're a piece of work.
msolga
 
  0  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 06:36 am
@Setanta,
I'm not "whining".
It's a fact.
You HAVE used very personal insults here.
Go back & read what you've actually written, Setanta.
I have written nothing here that comes anywhere near the way you've insulted me.

Quote:
...Silly claims that i'm accusing you of being "anti-US" (which i am not and have not) are not to the point.

Confused Confused Confused
Well , heck, you certainly coulda fooled me! Wink
Are you losing track of what you've actually posted here? Confused


Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 12:10 pm
@msolga,
I can only echo your dismissive remarks about being orversensitive and over-reacting. And i certainly did not accuse you of being anti-US, that's just another example of your hysterical hyperbole; i didn't say you had condemned the entire nation because it's the United States. I don't know why you made such a stupid comment, and really don't care. It's the fact of it, not the why.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 02:12 pm
Quote:
(Muskingum County Sherriff Matt) Lutz's ignorant savagery and Hanna's defense of it is the reflexive attitude of too many police and public officials in this country, and not just when it comes to exotic animals. Police too often respond to one complaint with a hail of bullets - even when it's native wildlife like black bears, wolves or mountain lions," Glenn Hurowitz of the Center for International Policy wrote his blog on The Huffington Post.

Hurowitz also said that "Lutz should face review of his actions, and should probably lose his job."


http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/234984/20111020/exotic-animals-jack-hanna-matt-lutz-zanesville.htm
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 02:29 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The owner of the wild animal preserve,Terry Thompson, let all his wild animals loose and then killed himself, and it seems that he wanted his body left as food for the creatures. It looks like he baited his body by putting dead chickens nearby before killing himself. It appears he wanted the wild animals, to eat him. While no one can say for sure, the sheriff did say this is what Thompson possibly had in mind.

Thompson, 62, did get bitten by one of the animals after he was dead and it looks as if one of the big cats not only bit him, but dragged his body around. Other than the bite on his head, there's no evidence that the animals carried out, what was possibly their owners sick and twisted plan of the animals eating his dead body, according to WKYC Channel 3 News.

http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474980623924

Many who knew him say that it is inconceivable that Thompson would have wanted harm to come to the animals, but this is the same guy who let cattle die so who knows.
0 Replies
 
thack45
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 03:31 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
(Muskingum County Sherriff Matt) Lutz's ignorant savagery and Hanna's defense of it is the reflexive attitude of too many police and public officials in this country, and not just when it comes to exotic animals. Police too often respond to one complaint with a hail of bullets - even when it's native wildlife like black bears, wolves or mountain lions," Glenn Hurowitz of the Center for International Policy wrote his blog on The Huffington Post.

Hurowitz also said that "Lutz should face review of his actions, and should probably lose his job."


http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/234984/20111020/exotic-animals-jack-hanna-matt-lutz-zanesville.htm

http://able2know.org/topic/178963-2#post-4767720
thack45 wrote:

I haven't looked but I have no doubt that the media will find any number of "experts" having the exact opinions they're looking for. And yes. We just need to hear them.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 03:54 pm
I was thrown by the shooting of the escaped animals when I read about it here and in a short news piece yesterday, but I didn't get that it was anywhere approaching that many. I admit I didn't feel very jokey so I didn't respond, but didn't mind those that did. They didn't know about the near fifty either.

Can see the public safety thing. When I moved to my last home town, just before I got there a bear had been shot and killed on my street, two blocks from my second rental in my second month there, long story - this bear shooting caused a lot of local discussion and, if I remember, new rules re bears mid town). But, re Ohio, now, I was starting to worry as I read posts about giraffes, camels.

The whole number throws me for a loop, as it should, and brings questions about that many animals in the 'care' of a wonky person.

When I moved to the U.S. southwest five years ago (originally from what I also consider the south and west - Los Angeles - that never is considered part of the southwest that I know of) I had no idea of the strong level of anti government regulation pulsing in these miles upon miles. Whole different state of mind from my milieu, including my moderately wide reading. I now get it that some other areas feel the same way, strongly anti regulation.

Well, this is perhaps a point where people can approach agreeing. This kind of zoo should be well regulated if permitted at all. Wild animal rescue places come to mind too, much as I sympathize.

Killing a giraffe, break my heart, and that's only one.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 04:10 pm
@ossobuco,
On scolding, I took off after msolga about scolding myself a couple of years ago, so I get Set on this, all his points. Meantime Msolga is one of the people I most often agree with here and care about.

On the other hand, I scold, Set scolds in his way, many of us scold in various ways, some gently (or passive aggressively) - especially in politics threads - and it is sort of hard to never scold, once you get engaged in exchange of opinions here. The best and worst of us scold. Oh, look, we have something in common after all.

We have many courteous never impolite people. Just wait - scolding happens.

sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 04:23 pm
It's so crazy and farcical that I think a natural first reaction is humor.

"No school today, honey, there are lions and tigers and bears and wolves on the loose."

And the beginning of the New York Times piece on this! Awesome!

Quote:
ZANESVILLE, Ohio — The woman’s voice sounded a little annoyed. “There’s a bear and a lion out,” she told the 911 operator on Tuesday. “Right up behind us.”

Come again? the operator said. “Yeah,” the caller replied. “They’re chasing Terry’s horses.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/20/us/police-kill-dozens-of-animals-freed-from-ohio-preserve.html

I think the images of Ohio-as-Veld (with live animals roaming) is more amusing than the later realizations that so many of them were killed.

But I don't totally condemn that either. It sounds like a lot of quick decisions had to be made, with limited resources. The mass release was discovered Tuesday evening, as it was getting dark. It's been gray and rainy here pretty much non-stop (in terms of visibility). The law enforcement guys who responded and saw the animals loose (big scary ones) didn't have tranquilizer darts, just their standard-issue guns. Then when tranquilizer darts were eventually procured, they didn't drop all of them (it did work on some, and those are the ones going to the Columbus Zoo).

I get that they were concerned about the escaped animals getting harder and harder to find the longer they were left to their own devices. (In terms of holding fire and waiting for the tranquilizer darts, for example.) And nobody wants to see that story about a three-year-old girl who was mauled by an escaped tiger.

Meanwhile, I think the lax laws here are crazy. This guy clearly was not qualified to take care of all of those animals. So I hope some sort of more-stringent rules will come out of it.

But yeah, an Ohio lady calmly explaining that a lion and a bear are chasing her husband's horses -- gotta laugh.
dlowan
 
  4  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 04:29 pm
@ossobuco,
Actually, as I read Msolga's comment in no way did she say the US was uncivilized.....she said she couldn't see how an enlightened country could have such lax laws on just anyone being able to keep such animals.

I suppose you could choose to read it as saying the US is unenlightened...but I think it far more reasonable to read it the other way....but what ho.

I gather Ohio's laws are especially lax, but I read that laws vary a lot from state to state.

It sounds as though this guy has been a problem for years.....with cruelty, lack of responsible restraint of the poor animals etc.

I think we'd all agree this has been a tragedy for the animals concerned and a possible tragedy for humans, and I hope Ohions decide to ensure their laws regarding who is able to keep such animals are examined.



dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 04:30 pm
@sozobe,
I agree that it is wrong to condemn authorities. It's an awful outcome, but imagine if the poor creatures had killed someone.

Edit

Soz got there first bas usual!
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 05:14 pm
@dlowan,
Quote:
I agree that it is wrong to condemn authorities. It's an awful outcome, but imagine if the poor creatures had killed someone.
That is more of your "if it saves one life then it is worth doing" nonsense. Reasonable rational people would want to compare the action to the risk, what the risks were we do not know because nobody is talking about that part except to say " the cops were right" . It appears that over twenty of the animals were still on the property when they were killed, was that really necessary? How did the others get off the property, did the cops do it when they came to see what was going on? How far did to go? How many people lived in that area? Could cops had evacuated the people and waited till morning? Is there assertion that they could not capture at night make sense given that we know that they had night vision equipment?
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 05:19 pm
Is the US at war with Australia yet? Hadn't heard it on what passes for 'the news.'
dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 05:23 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
It's technically a "police action".
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 05:45 pm
@dlowan,
Thank you, Deb.
It certainly was not my intention to call the US "uncivilized".
Quote:
she said she couldn't see how an enlightened country could have such lax laws on just anyone being able to keep such animals.

Yes.
And certainly not all of the US that has such lax laws regarding the sale & ownership of exotic species, according to this ABC article yesterday:

Quote:
......The Ohio director of the US Humane Society, Karen Minton, says the state is one of five in the US with lax laws

"We're finding ourselves to be a magnet; people are coming to this state for the sale and trade of these dangerous and exotic species. It's shocking how readily available these animals are," she said.

"One can acquire any of these species from going onto the internet.

"There are publications for people to - like a classified section if you will - but instead of used cars and whatnot it's armadillos, it's Gaboon vipers, it's grizzly bears.

"It's a shocking amount of different animals who clearly have no business being in someone's backyard or being kept as a pet."

No regulations

Ms Minton says in Ohio people can legally buy exotic animals without permits.

"There's an exotic animal auction that's notorious here in Ohio, where literally thousands of animals come in - kangaroos, grizzly bears, hyenas, wolves, a wild menagerie of different animals," she said.

"And people can just go and they put maybe a horse trailer on the back of their car and they purchase them and they buy them."

She says Ohio's laissez-faire stance on the issue means there is no way to know who owns exotic animals in the state.

"We really don't know. No-one has a real good number on the number of places that are out there. I can put a puma in my backyard as we speak and call myself a sanctuary," she said.

Owners have no obligations to fence their properties and there is no inspection regime to make sure the animals receive proper care.
Lioness and bear killed after being deliberately set free Photo: The bodies of a lioness and a bear shot by police (APTN)

Ms Minton says it is the fault of the state, not the police involved, that the animals had to be put down.

'The local sheriff's office in a pretty rural county in Ohio - they're not equipped to go in and handle an angry, aggressive mature grizzly that's loose and that is about to go out into the community," she said.

"We don't have a single entity that - this is your go-to when these sorts of things happen. So, we really find it as a sad sort of by-product of the fact that Ohio has no regulation." ......


(warning: some might find some images contained in the video & photographs of the slaughtered animals contained in this link upsetting.)
Lax laws blamed for US exotic animal slaughter:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-20/no-regulation-led-to-zoo-slaughter/3581576
thack45
 
  3  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 05:56 pm
@sozobe,
I agree with every point here Sozbe. No one I know here is even talking about it, much less whether or not the "right" decisions were made. The more time spent determining the sufficiently sensitive course of action, the more the search area would have grown. And these officers weren't hunting for sport. I doubt they had some sort of combat scenario mentality going on.

And yes, the laws (or lack thereof) are crazy. Remember the Gahanna Lion story a few years back? I remember wondering then how it could be legal for a person in Columbus to just own a lion.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 06:23 pm
@msolga,
I'd have thought the main point was that your view of the US as an enlightened country made you surprised re the laws regarding the keeping, by what appears at this point, in some states, to be just any old Thomasina, Dick or harry, especially surprising...this especially given the rarity of a number of the poor animals, which one would imaging ought to have been part of a careful captive breeding program, as they are in most western countries, to help maintain a diverse gene pool with hopes of eventual return to a more enlightened wild.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 06:52 pm
@dlowan,
Quote:
I'd have thought the main point was that your view of the US as an enlightened country made you surprised re the laws regarding the keeping, by what appears at this point, in some states, to be just any old Thomasina, Dick or harry, especially surprising...this especially given the rarity of a number of the poor animals, which one would imaging ought to have been part of a careful captive breeding program, as they are in most western countries, to help maintain a diverse gene pool with hopes of eventual return to a more enlightened wild
These poor unfortunate creatures are caught between the pinchers of on the one hand their wild habitat being mostly gone never to return and on the other the leftists who dont believe that animals should be kept confined by humans. If PETA and the like nut jobs were to get their way all of these animals would be let loose so that they could almost immediately starve. So long as they dont believe that even the best run zoo's should exist their whining about private individuals being able to keep animals rings hollow.
0 Replies
 
wayne
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 07:06 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
It appears that over twenty of the animals were still on the property when they were killed,


I know that sounds like it should make a difference, but it doesn't.
Even 20 cows can be difficult to deal with, especially for inexperienced people.
There is little likelyhood of herding 20 tigers and lions and bears, peacefully back into their pens. Assuming anyone is crazy enough to try it.


As bad as the situation is, these guys made the best choice they could when they had few options. The role of police in this country is to protect the citizens, the animals take a back seat to safety of the general public, and yes that means even one human life comes first.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 07:20 pm
@wayne,
Quote:
As bad as the situation is, these guys made the best choice they could when they had few options. The role of police in this country is to protect the citizens, the animals take a back seat to safety of the general public, and yes that means even one human life comes first.
That might be right, however we have never been presented with the facts and have never conducted an examination of those facts. I long ago learned that in America what is not said is as important or more so than what is said, because there are a great number of schemers and manipulators about...

The information about where these animals were has not been mentioned. More likely than not it is because it will prompt questions that the authorities do not want asked. The failure of American Journalism bleeds us with a thousand cuts.
 

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