16
   

America making it harder to vote? WTH?

 
 
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2011 10:46 am
I was reading in the paper today about all the laws under consideration that would make it harder for Americans to vote when I suddenly flashed on all the purple fingered Iraqi voters that were so celebrated in our press only a few short years ago.

I think I must be missing something because I'm really confused by this.

Why would any state do anything that would make it harder for it's citizens to vote?

Please can someone explain this to me?
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Type: Question • Score: 16 • Views: 9,122 • Replies: 120

 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2011 10:49 am
@boomerang,
I've not heard this and it seems crazy to me - do you have the link to the article?
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2011 10:51 am
@Linkat,
This is not the one I read (which was in my paper) but it seems to have the same general information: http://business-journal.com/study-quantifies-impact-of-new-voting-laws-p20096-1.htm
Setanta
 
  6  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2011 10:57 am
@boomerang,
That's pretty easy. Conseratives figure (and probably with justification) that their voter base will get out and vote without regard for any minor hurdles which might be thrown in their way. They rely on older citizens and more affluent citizens. Anything which makes voting more difficult they figure will reduce the number of voters going to the polls to vote for Democrats.
boomerang
 
  6  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2011 11:03 am
@Setanta,
That's how I read it too but I figured I had to be missing something because this just makes me goddamn sick.

I have never been an "I hate America" or a "Rah! Go America!" person but seriously.... making it so that people have a hard time voting? That is seriously messed up.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2011 11:05 am
@Linkat,
Felony disenfranchisement

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement

==============

Did Florida's felon disenfranchisement laws cause Al Gore to lose the 2000 presidential election?

http://felonvoting.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000660

=============


INVOKING THE PENALTY: HOW FLORIDA’S
FELON DISENFRANCHISEMENT LAW
VIOLATES THE CONSTITUTIONAL
REQUIREMENT OF POPULATION EQUALITY
IN CONGRESSIONAL REPRESENTATION,
AND WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT
Katherine Shaw

http://www.law.northwestern.edu/lawreview/v100/n3/1439/LR100n3Shaw.pdf

=================

The GOP's war on voting

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/03/republicans_war_on_voting.html

====================

A History of Disenfranchised Florida Voters
by DIANE ROBERTS

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88019891

================

Democratic Senate Campaign Committee Asks DOJ To Block Florida Voter Disenfranchisement Law

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/08/04/287874/dscc-vs-disenfranchisement/

=================

Background to the 2000 US election
Florida's legacy of voter disenfranchisement
By Jerry White

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/apr2001/flor-a09.shtml



Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2011 11:07 am
@boomerang,
I don't have a problem with the first two - provided that they make available photo IDs at no cost to people with limited income and allow clear instructions and make it easy to obtain (in other words - there are many locations to obtain and enough hours that are varied enough to get these ids).

I support having IDs to limit voter fraud, but you cannot make it difficult and it should be economically feasible for all to get an ID. I mean if you make the extra effort to go out and vote - it shouldn't be much more a burden to get an ID.
boomerang
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2011 11:23 am
@Linkat,
A quick look around for research on voter fraud leads me to believe that it isn't really a problem and that in the few cases where it is a problem, requiring photo IDs wouldn't have helped: http://www.truthaboutfraud.org/pdf/TruthAboutVoterFraud.pdf
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2011 11:23 am
@JTT,
Thanks, JTT. I'll be looking through those links.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2011 11:57 am
America making it harder to vote? WTH?

keeps the riff raff out of the polling stations

there'll still be plenty of riff raff in politics
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2011 12:25 pm
@boomerang,
Kansas reports more sightings of UFOs than voter-fraud charges. Very Happy

We don't have such problems here since we don't have to register (but are registered automatically).
And since everyone here has to own an ID-card, that's no problem neither.

What makes me wonder is how differently states look at this: in Texas, a voter doesn't even have to show his driver's license or passport — he can qualify just by producing his license to carry a concealed handgun. However, any any form of student identification is not eligible.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2011 12:29 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:

That's how I read it too but I figured I had to be missing something because this just makes me goddamn sick.

I have never been an "I hate America" or a "Rah! Go America!" person but seriously.... making it so that people have a hard time voting? That is seriously messed up.


If you're going to dismiss "to prevent voter fraud," from consideration, then you're pretty well left with something political and outrageous.

If you ask the question "Why make it easier to vote?" and you dismiss "to facilitate voter fraud," from consideration, then you're pretty well left with something wonderfully civil minded.

If you believe that neither side of the political spectrum has a lock on good or bad intentions then you pretty much have to come to the conclusion that some of this stuff has to really do with fraud and some of it has to do with influencing turnout.

But you know this.

You didn't ask the question thinking that perhaps there was some answer you hadn't already considered, but which, nevertheless, would put in all in proper perspective. You asked it in a non-confrontational way that nevertheless allowed you to accuse proponents of voting regulations with the intent to disenfranchize a certain segment of voters, and perhaps without even knowing it, to exonerate the opponents of regulation of any intent to commit fraud.

You can google "Voter fraud in America" and come up with a list of literally millions of hits. The links contained in this list take you from what appear to be scholarly papers to clipped tweets. There are articles written by "experts" with impressive thumbnail qualifications and unhinged screeds posted on political blogs. All and sundry manner of evidence for one proposition or the other.

Assuming the "truth" about this topic is contained in this 3 million + list of hits, the liklihood of finding it through a quick scanning of the first 4 or 5 pages of results is almost nil.

If there is a way that the question can be answered with something approaching objectivity it begins with putting aside both assumed bad intentions and uncritical acceptance of positive intent.

Easy to say but not so easy to do, and I'm certainly no less guilty of hanging onto bias than anyone else.

If however, you enter consideration of this topic with beginning biases that

increasing voter rolls is necessarily a positive situation and that anything making it, in any way, more difficult for someone to vote is necessarily a negative condition,

or that

only one side of the issue can be based on good or bad intent,

then the chances are pretty good that I can predict your ultimate conclusion with 100% accuracy and that it will not have significantly altered at any time throughout the process.
boomerang
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2011 12:34 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I live in what is perhaps America's strangest looking voting state -- we vote by mail. People thought that it would lead to tons of fraud but so far I've never heard a peep about it. Mr. B had a ballot questioned because they didn't think his signature on the ballot was an exact match to the one on the envelope though.

I just looked up what homeless people do in my state. Most of them use a shelter's address and several of the shelters are very active in getting people to vote. They can also use a street corner as their address -- basically, any place they can describe can be used as an address to have their ballot delivered to.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2011 12:39 pm
@Setanta,
That is 100% the reason for it.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2011 12:44 pm
http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/03/8119336-map-making-voting-harder

http://m.static.newsvine.com/servista/imagesizer?file=null-nullC6A63533-6AD8-B667-ACCB-44CDC8568C26.jpg&width=600

Quote:
Since Republicans gained control of so many state legislatures in 2010, they've been working to pass laws that make voting harder. We've been asking on the show whether they've made voting hard enough, in enough places, to change the landscape in 2012.

Now, from the Brennan Center for Justice, comes the beginning of an answer:

The states that have already cut back on voting rights will provide 171 electoral votes in 2012 – 63 percent of the 270 needed to win the presidency.

In those states, minority, student and poor voters are most likely to feel the pinch from the new rules. As many as one in four African-Americans don't have the kind of photo ID needed to vote. In Maine, after finding almost no evidence of voter fraud, the Secretary of State sent college students a letter saying they might be in violation of the law. And in Wisconsin, you can get a free photo ID from the Department of Motor Vehicles -- if you know to ask for it.

On the Brennan Center map above, states in red attempting to pass new restrictions on voting. The ones with other symbols succeeded. A quick key: "ID" means new requirements for showing photo ID at the polls. A star means proving citizenship. The hand and pen stand for restrictions on voter registration; the envelope for shortened windows on absentee and early voting; and the gavel for executive orders that make it harder to restore voting rights.



Here's a link to the Brennan Center's 64 page report:

http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/voting_law_changes_in_2012

Quote:
Executive Summary

Over the past century, our nation expanded the franchise and knocked down myriad barriers to full electoral participation. In 2011, however, that momentum abruptly shifted.

State governments across the country enacted an array of new laws making it harder to register or to vote. Some states require voters to show government-issued photo identification, often of a type that as many as one in ten voters do not have. Other states have cut back on early voting, a hugely popular innovation used by millions of Americans. Two states reversed earlier reforms and once again disenfranchised millions who have past criminal convictions but who are now taxpaying members of the community. Still others made it much more difficult for citizens to register to vote, a prerequisite for voting.

These new restrictions fall most heavily on young, minority, and low-income voters, as well as on voters with disabilities. This wave of changes may sharply tilt the political terrain for the 2012 election. Based on the Brennan Center’s analysis of the 19 laws and two executive actions that passed in 14 states, it is clear that:

These new laws could make it significantly harder for more than five million eligible voters to cast ballots in 2012.
The states that have already cut back on voting rights will provide 171 electoral votes in 2012 – 63 percent of the 270 needed to win the presidency.
Of the 12 likely battleground states, as assessed by an August Los Angeles Times analysis of Gallup polling, five have already cut back on voting rights (and may pass additional restrictive legislation), and two more are currently considering new restrictions.

States have changed their laws so rapidly that no single analysis has assessed the overall impact of such moves. Although it is too early to quantify how the changes will impact voter turnout, they will be a hindrance to many voters at a time when the United States continues to turn out less than two thirds of its eligible citizens in presidential elections and less than half in midterm elections.

This study is the first comprehensive roundup of all state legislative action thus far in 2011 on voting rights, focusing on new laws as well as state legislation that has not yet passed or that failed. This snapshot may soon be incomplete: the second halves of some state legislative sessions have begun.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  3  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2011 12:44 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
And you can use Google scholar, like I did, and get a fraction of the hits but more reliable information as it leaves out the opinion pieces and jumps straight to the meat of the question.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2011 12:50 pm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/campaigns/supreme-court-throws-out-judgment-against-electronic-voting-machines-in-texas/2011/10/03/gIQAfVevHL_story.html

Quote:
Supreme Court throws out judgment on electronic voting machines in Texas
By Associated Press, Updated: Monday, October 3, 10:34 AM

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court has thrown out a ruling on the use of a certain electronic voting machine in Texas.

The high court without comment declared moot an appeal of a ruling against Dallas County, Texas. That county was sued by the Texas Democratic Party over the use of iVotronic machines.

They allow people to vote straight-party tickets, but if the voter subsequently touches any of the candidates in that party on the screen, their vote for that person is rescinded.

Officials say the Justice Department approved the machines, but federal courts in Texas say the straight-line voting change was not explicitly approved. Chad Dunn, the lawyer for the Texas Democratic Party, said now the county must get preclearance from the Justice Department before using the machines.

The high court declared the case against the machines moot since the Justice Department has now cleared the machines, and ordered another part back to court to decide a fight over attorney fees.

Before machines, Dallas County used paper ballots. If a voter selected a straight ticket, and that party’s candidate, his or her vote for that candidate would count.

The cases are Dallas County v Texas Democratic Party, 10-755 and 10-1183.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2011 12:56 pm
Meanwhile...

http://politics.salon.com/2011/09/27/votinghack/

Quote:
Tuesday, Sep 27, 2011 6:01 AM Mountain Daylight Time
Diebold voting machines can be hacked by remote control
Exclusive: A laboratory shows how an e-voting machine used by a third of all voters can be easily manipulated

It could be one of the most disturbing e-voting machine hacks to date.

Voting machines used by as many as a quarter of American voters heading to the polls in 2012 can be hacked with just $10.50 in parts and an 8th grade science education, according to computer science and security experts at the Vulnerability Assessment Team at Argonne National Laboratory in Illinois. The experts say the newly developed hack could change voting results while leaving absolutely no trace of the manipulation behind.

“We believe these man-in-the-middle attacks are potentially possible on a wide variety of electronic voting machines,” said Roger Johnston, leader of the assessment team “We think we can do similar things on pretty much every electronic voting machine.”

The Argonne Lab, run by the Department of Energy, has the mission of conducting scientific research to meet national needs. The Diebold Accuvote voting system used in the study was loaned to the lab’s scientists by VelvetRevolution.us, of which the Brad Blog is a co-founder. Velvet Revolution received the machine from a former Diebold contractor.


More at the link.



There is a more technically-detailed report here:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-20113063-245/e-voting-machines-vulnerable-to-remote-vote-changing/
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2011 01:52 pm
I find it funny that when I rented a carpet cleaning machine the other day they made me show ID for it yet you complain about having to show an ID to vote.

All of you base your assumptions on the idea that only people who vote for Republicans can afford an ID. My state it costs 10.50 and is good for 5 years. If voting is that important then they can go get an ID and register to vote as well. After that it isn't that much harder to find your proper voting location. My state will run commercials with a phone # listed so you can locate your polling station.

As for mail in ballots, I'm not a fan of the process but I can understand where they would be helpful to the elderly and those not able to leave their homes for medical reasons. Federal law says your employer has to give you time off to vote, whether you take that time at the beginning or end of your work day or on your lunch time shouldn't matter. The Presidential election is just a little more than a year from now. This should give people plenty of time to make sure they have all they need to vote where they live.
tsarstepan
 
  4  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2011 02:00 pm
@boomerang,
It's plain and simple voter disenfranchisement ploy against the poor and the minority population who aren't coincidentally in the Democratic voter ranks from the Republicans in guise of an alleged campaign against voter fraud.

If these voting laws can't be thrown out on their lack of Constitutional basis, then the Democratic machine needs to help everyone who has been negatively effected by this law as it could in theory annul/void tens of thousands if not a few millions of votes next election.

Here is an old podcast of (July) a Boston radio program on the Rhode Island ID law:
http://www.wgbh.org/programs/The-Callie-Crossley-Show-855/episodes/Weds-June-22Voter-ID-Laws-30359
0 Replies
 
 

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